....to think men are, sorry, but AWFUL

@AdamRyan well I am you won't silence me!

HTH!

Porn addiction and sleeping with prostitutes is not something women do. I don't really think it's infidelity as such either - it's males feelings of entitlement to sex.

Those feelings of entitlement are also the driver of a lot of abusive behaviours to women.

Why did Wayne Couzens rape and murder Sarah Everard? That's the extreme end of a continuum. Womens "infidelity" doesn't extend to that.

You are trying to fix the terms of the debate to make it less obvious that a lot of men are awful. Nice try.

It's only in the last couple years I've seen how unpleasant and predatory men can be. The dating pool is a sewer.

It's the Internet. It's debatable how many of these "NAMALT" posters are actually women imo

I have good men in my life too but they wouldn't expect me to come on this thread defending them or trying to pretend women are equally culpable for the violence and harm in the world. They know who they are and whether the things said apply to them or not, and wouldn't take it personally if the cap didn't fit. They understand why women have negative views of men, because they see the behaviour of other men and know they have grounds.

I know what you mean. My DH wouldn’t expect me to defend him, as no one is saying anything bad about him personally anyway. And he’s disgusted by the way a lot of men treat women. So do other decent men I know.

There is no need to be defensive of the men in your lives. Other posters don't know them personally and are not talking about them. And no one is saying that there aren’t any decent men around.

Yes they are @FlissyPaps, you've got selective reading!!

The op is being totally unreasonable!!

I said most women have been on the receiving end
Nothing to do with numbers of men at all

No. We don’t.
I think I can safely say that we think women should do what they want and what they’re comfortable with.

I'm not being goady, smug, strong or revolting but...

Do some of you think that no woman should date a man again?

This is a serious question because surely if we can't say that some men are not awful (which I do say) then we have to say no do not date as it it is too dangerous.

What are you telling your Daughters.

I only have a Son so all I do is tell him what is happening in the world and that he is never to treat any woman or man badly.

No woman is trying to silence other women here.

Telling someone that “Not all men are awful” is an unhelpful and pointless statement to make is not trying to silence women.

😅
What?
Silence women!?
That’s what you are doing!
Crazy just keeps getting crazier now!

Yes, I think some women were trying to give the OP hope that not all men are bad.

I've been slated for saying the wrong things though so I've got to be careful what I type.

I think men are generally worse than women, but yes, as an entire species, I don't think we cover ourselves in glory either.

We should do better.

It is not a pointless waste of time, for people to advise that the OP is BU, otherwise why would she post in AIBU?

Stop trying to silence other women.

@5128gap I have a daughter and a son. As a mother, if feels more intuitive as to how to raise my daughter. Unfortunately my husband is one of these men who is not a role model, and I want to raise a good man. Love and boundaries will be my guide and hopefully having an older sister will help. I want him to treat women with respect, have integrity and kindness.

I think that humans are awful.

Humans all generally seem to choose the dark nasty path , rather than the kind caring path.

We are a brutal animalistic race.

If there are any other planets, I bet they look at us as an extremely primitive brutal animalistic civilization.

Can I get off this planet yet?

What sort of pressure?

I feel so much more pressure raising a son rather than a daughter because of this.

I think people are confusing two separate things here.

1. Men who cheat and destroy women's lives

• equally, women do this. It might not be to the same extent but we need actual data to support that hypothesis.

1. Men are responsible for overwhelming majority of abuse in relationships, emotional, financial and physical - as well as murder of women and girls than women are of men. This is factually and demonstratively true.

I totally agree@SamanthaCaine - it's trust that's so hard after you've been shat on- doesn't matter if it's a bloke or a woman , a bit of you I feel holds back that 100% blind trust

it is almost always men, and making excuses for them or defending them with - my dad's lovely - isn't going to change anything.

This is very true.
The whole not my Nigel just distracts from important conversation and adds nothing, so it's pointless waste of time.

@SamanthaCaine

Thank you.

I agree with everything you have just posted.

@5128gap

Thank for explaining without being horrible.

I would suggest you avoid threads like this in the future if these conversations make you uncomfortable and/ or angry.

Or, with respect, perhaps you could start your own thread about these kinds of topics, which actually deserve a thread in their own right.

I think @PartridgeInAChair and many others have just pointed out that, quite rightfully, men aren't all awful (in context).

Remember this thread started out 100% about infidelity and nothing about the issues you and others have reduced this thread to. Sadly this reduction to binary levels started only 5 posts in, which is typical.

It's a shame as the OP actually posted something worthy of deeper discussion and thought. How do we rebuild trust after infidelity? How can some people go into another relationship giving their all whilst others can't?

Women cheat, men cheat. Trust is a problem for many people irrespective of sex/gender. How does one solve this so they go into future relationships giving the same commitment and not self sabotaging a potentially good relationship.

It's quite sad that a nuanced debate doesn't often take place and that it ends up reduced to bickering about stuff that's important but largely irrelevant to the OP. The OP is really no better off than she was 22 pages ago. Yet she asked for help and hasn't received any.

I have a fantastic male BFF, several other male friends I'm very close to, a great dad who's also a great hands-on grandad, a BIL who I love and respect and love hanging out with. A son. male friends of my son who I care about almost as much as I do him.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't men out there who are violent, misogynistic, harmful. selfish. etc etc

It's not ALL men but it is almost always men, and making excuses for them or defending them with - my dad's lovely - isn't going to change anything.