Is the Zoe nutrition test worth it? Or Emperor's new clothes?

You can make your own very easily. We bought some cheap kiln jars, white cabbage, etc, Cheap and simple.

I'm so tempted to join it but the cost is very prohibitive.

I eat very healthy but am interest in nutrition generally especially gut microbiology. I think TS is fantastic. No pseudo science, everything backed by data.

yeah sorry, was an extra not in my last post.... someone said "listen for yourself" and then when I did read podcasts for myself, and commented what I got from those podcasts, it felt like other PP were saying "don't do that! " <shrug>

Hope OP finds it easier to make decision now, whatever their decision is.

I did it, and havent followed much of the advice at all! Was an expensive insight into my body but the advice after was pretty rubbish.

I had signed up for the waiting list but decided to go ahead when I was given the option of getting an earlier start by buying into the programme. I am interested in the gut microbiome and its impact on health. I think it has a lot to teach us but it has to be scientifically evaluated, and you can only do that through a stool sample. I am looking forward to starting in May but have already started making small tweaks to my diet. You state your own particular health goals, of which weight loss may be one, but this is not the main focus of the study.

I shouldn't have not followed that suggestion,

I don't understand double negatives.

You mean you should have followed my advice. ?

People should not read or listen for themselves.

I'm sorry but I don't understand you last post at all.

Sorry but you are not making sense,😀

As others have said it's not about weight loss.

I'm on the waiting list, I've devoured his podcasts. I did eat fairly healthy already but the last few weeks I've adopted the 30 plants a week, fermented food daily and I like it. On his IG or the Zoe IG page there are nice easy recipes that would not be weight loss recipes, they are gut health recipes.

He is a proper scientist and dr. It's not pseudo science. He is doing research but he's been doing research for years. Check out his twin study.

Gut microbiomes impacting your mood is research that has been around a while now. It's not a new fad.

So when PP said " Try listening yourself! "

I shouldn't have not followed that suggestion, right, is that what later PP agree with. People should not read or listen for themselves.

Oh good, this one is about inflammation & aging.

Technically, aging happens because of passage of time & is inevitable. Nothing can stop it. But I think Spector means "damaging effects of aging" which he shortens to just "aging".

Oh cool! So something I hadn't heard before:
chronic inflammation can cause heart disease, T2DM & some MH disorders.... (1) this inflammation is caused by too high blood sugar that somehow irritates the lining of the blood vessels (& other blood-related actions that they don't specify). If you eat polyphenals (they claim), those reduce the inflammatory effect.... which food have polyphenals ...then Spector goes on to say that lack of best gut microbe balance means too much fat in the blood & that keeps blood sugar high (3) too which keeps inflammatory effect going ...

Berry says that increasing polyphenals in diet improves cognitive function (2)

(1) trying to read wider to better understand, other sources say that high blood sugar leads to constricted vessells which reduce blood flow & increase blood pressure ; I understand those sources better than the "lots of little fires" language that Berry & Spector used.

(2) this review says that's not proven

(3) I know the relationship isn't universal (someone's numbers say opposite)

There are other podcasts on those links, if someone like me finds it easier to scan than listen. Both the transcripts I read were keen on beneficial effects of polyphenals, maybe because that's Berry's area.

@lljkk The list of declared interests....

As you know, the work of T Spector is funded by Kings College where he is a professor. A lot of the research that Zoe is based on was done during the Twins research program.

He is paid for this as an academic and as you will know was also funded by the government during Covid to gather stats.

The Zoe company is funded by private equity and TS is a co-partner. The origins of Zoe were a meeting between TS and two data guys from California.
The data geeks presented TS with the option of going into a company together so that the public could benefit from/ add to the research around the microbiome.

The people listed on the 'interests' are either employees of Zoe (privately funded company) or academics, or doctors , working at King's and other universities (and in the NHS) who are doing research into gut health, and the wider implications for this.

These are academic papers, totally legit, and if you are inferring they are simply doing it to 'sell' Zoe, that's not what is going on.

The research was going on for many years all over the world, into the link between chronic disease and gut health, long before Zoe was launched.

I don't understand why it's an issue if you find some podcasts tell you things you know already. Just move on and don't listen.

No one knows what YOU know, so how can anyone here advise on what they have learned (as you could know that already.)

The fats and oils podcast...

There are still millions of people who believe that a low-fat diet is the way to go and that podcast throws light on how a lot of what is now 'believed' may not be the case. It says that many low fat products (eg yoghurt) may be full of artificial sweetener, or real sugar, which is likely to be more harmful than fat.

Hence the advice to eat full fat plain yoghurt, not low-fat/high sugar yoghurt.

You might know this but the diet industry thrives on peddling misconceptions.

I signed up, but then I am a bit of a sucker for a new nutrition related 'new approach'. Before I even got my test box, I had devoured everything the team including Tim Spector had published.

My results were no surprise, and not great.

A month or two before my test materials turned up, I had committed to a significant change in the kind of food I eat regularly. I was feeling really well on the new regime so was reluctant to make some of the experiments they suggested. There was no loss of information, because I had already worked out how my body responds these days (over sixty), when my days of carefree consumption of sugar far behind me.

In these circumstances there wasn't much for me to learn. It was though very reassuring to have objective evidence that my changes did indeed suit me. After an initial few days of transition, I have had no trouble maintaining my changes.

Wearing a continuous glucose monitor showed by that the things I am eating avoid the spikes which contribute to that sugar rollercoaster which makes life so miserable for me when I eat sugar and starchy food.

I did adopt their advice that the sweet spot for variety of plant material to eat each week, is thirty different kinds of plant. I found the way the app drips out information very tedious but it might suit anyone who had not already read all their research.

I now include an HbA1c test annually just to reassure myself that the results of my regime are as expected and buy & wear a glucose monitor for a fortnight annually too

So, no I didn't learn but but yes, I would recommend the programme to anyone whose pattern of food consumption could do with an overhaul like to make changes for the better without too much research effort required.

Maybe you need to have a more open mind?

The podcasts feature a variety of scientists discussing, well....science!

They rarely mention the Zoe package, if at all.

There is a huge amount of information on all aspects of health all basically based on how the microbiome affects all our body and mind.

So one episode might be about sleep, another about anxiety, another about the effects of sugar substitutes and diabetes, how antibiotics destroy the gut microbiome, all based on scientific research, including gut health maximising some drug treatments.

All the guests on the podcasts are doctors or researchers, not only in the UK but worldwide.

What I have found fascinating is that so much of our mental and physical wellbeing is now linked to a health gut.

I don’t think I’ve learned anything new from the podcasts. I go through phases of listening to this kind of thing (though my current listening is about memory and psychology, following alongside my DD’s school requirements). But it’s in an easy, accessible format, and they are relatively short, so good to reinforce knowledge. They don’t push the paid for programme.

Here's a transcript about fats in the diet...
I haven't read anything there I haven't heard elsewhere.
The authors have a lot of interests to declare (but that wasn't new info either, tbf).

I'll look for another one...

I didn't really want to listen bec I assume they drone on a lot about why people should purchase their products. also it's a bit of a sly question (for me) bec you can only learn stuff you didn't already know; maybe I already heard about everything they say. But I am interested in what value others found in their wellbeing podcasts. what knowledge gap the Zoe podcasts fill for others.

maybe I can find a transcript, quickly get the gist...

For anyone who has an Audible subscription the Dr Joanna podcasts are an easy listen.
Eating lots of veg, olive oil & avoiding processed food is better for your gut than eating crap. Who knew

I've found it very useful. Big winner for me was getting more energy. My draining fatigue seems to have been caused by sugar spikes. I've eliminated these and feel loads better. Also, I lost a bit of weight and have now stabilised around where I want to be, without worrying about it too much.

Too much to list. Try listening yourself!

I have completed the Zoe program with all the tests and a month of coaching. I have nothing but praise for it. I joined as there is a family history of heart disease and I wanted to know how my body reacted to fat as well as any predisposition to diabetes.

You've got the wrong ideas about it.

There is no test for cholesterol.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants I think you are misunderstanding what it is about.

It's not really the case that your body can regulate glucose, it's about showing how well your body does this.

So if you are someone who has high blood sugar spikes after eating sugar and those spikes take a long time to go down that means your body is going to suffer from inflammation long term, as high BG means your body will react with inflammation (causing hardening of the arteries for one .)

Also, it's not being marketed as a weight loss program. You've got the wrong idea there. It's no way like Weight Watchers. WW is a load of rubbish and most people just pile it back on.

It's about creating a healthy gut microbiome. This means (for some people )making radical changes to what they eat. It's not about counting calories.

I suggest if you are unsure @hydroxyapatite that you follow Tim Spector on Twitter and watch some of his Youtube videos. There is an excellent new one out with Steve Bartlett interviewing him for 1.5 hours.

Spector is no fool - he's a professor of epidemiology.

Anyone who has listened to the podcasts, What did you learn?

They don't test your cholesterol levels. The blood test around lipids tests how quickly a standardised dose of fats is processed. There is zero focus on weight-loss. It's true that you can buy a glucose meter yourself, but interpreting the results is something else - mine didn't go outside of the set standard range the whole fortnight, but I still have very poor blood-sugar control. It's been useful for me to have actual evidence that advice which has never worked for me is because it just isn't right for me - brown pasta and rice spike me just as badly as white, porridge is basically the same for me as necking pure sugar. I cook almost everything from scratch and have no issues logging - stick the ingredients in a recipe as I go, add number of portions, job done.

It is expensive, no getting away from that. And you could listen to all the podcasts for free and get 80% of the benefit. But I have found it really useful.

Podcasts are freely available