Is the Zoe nutrition test worth it? Or Emperor's new clothes?

for people who just want the information and are able to understand it (it's not very complicated) and motivate themselves then Zoe isn't worth it in my opinion.

Fair enough, I'd agree... not sure I actually know many people like that though!

I haven't missed that point at all - it's valid. If someone wants to spend hundreds of punds on Zoe for motivation and wants or needs to have the information spoon fed to them then maybe Zoe could be worth it, and I've made that point. But my point is that for people who just want the information and are able to understand it (it's not very complicated) and motivate themselves then Zoe isn't worth it in my opinion.

No, you're missing the point entirely. Which is that there is no need to sign up for Zoe in order to, for example, eat 30 different plants a week. Eating 30 different plants a week is great for your health, no one is disputing that. But you don't need to pay £££ to find that out. Your friend who only eats the same 4 vegetables doesn't need to sign up for Zoe to find out how to improve her diet. The information is available for free.

But you're perhaps missing the point that yes, this information is available for free, but most people - even intelligent affluent people who read and understand the information! - often find it hard to actually change their eating habits. Similarly theres loads of good about the benefits of various forms of exercise but how many people do enough?

For at least some people, something like Zoë/using a CGM (and tech like fitness trackers) may be extremely useful tools for motivation and change.

The thing is, I suspect that the people who aren't eating 5 a day aren't likely to be in the market for Zoe, while the people who are in the market for it (by definition rich and interested in health) almost certainly already are.

I really like the whole organisation- I enjoy the podcast, I'm interested in the research- but I didn't learn anything additional about nutrition from doing the tests. For most people, I imagine there are ways to spend £300 on health that would deliver better bang for your buck- switch to more organic veg, join a gym, new running shoes or whatever. You can get 99% of the benefit of the nutritional advice just by following the summaries people have posted on here.

FGS! Please think a bit more before you post!
You shouldn't need these things explained to you.

The 30 plant rule is based on a correlational study. It is a guess, not a proven causal relationship.

Have you read the research into the results from immunotherapy treatment when the patients improved their microbiome, and seen the outcomes of their treatment compared to the control group? It was published about 2 years ago.

That is your straw man right there.

I don't think you know what straw man is. It's not what I'm posting

But they don't need to pay ££ on Zoe! They can simply do a little bit of research themselves to realise that they're not eating a very diverse diet.

If it was so easy why would almost 70% of the population be overweight or obese? If they could just research and do it themselves?

Why Is anyone overweight or unhealthy when the info is out there and has been for ages(other than the specific 30 different plants.)

And it IS personalised. We all react differently, hence the TWINS study which is the foundation for it all.

The point of Zoe is it hits people in their wallets. It also provides 1:1 support if they need it.

I accept it's not for everyone. Fair enough.

I found it helpful as it highlighted my 'weak spot' which is saturated fats.
I also found it useful to see my BG go up highest with a roast dinner (potatoes and gravy made with flour) more than with a mince pie (full of sugar.)
I also found my BG came down a lot (after eating a banana) with a 20 min brisk walk.

The 30 plant rule is based on a correlational study. It is a guess, not a proven causal relationship.

In fact, the Facebook groups are not full of people who have followed the Zoe diet and seen improved microbiomes. It’s okay they say; it turns out the first measurements were flawed. The first measurements assessed the wrong elements of the microbiome but SCIENCE. Now we know better. Isn’t it fun to be part of SCIENCE? They do not consider that maybe these tests are also not valid. They do not ask, if the original tests were wrong, what else might be wrong?

Isn’t the emperor wearing beautiful robes?

@ManateeFair just said "it's bollocks." There isn't any context as to whether she meant signing up to Zoe is bollocks or that all the research underpinning Zoe is bollocks. For some reason you seem to have assumed the latter even though the topic of this thread is the former! That is your straw man right there.

The personalised insights Zoe provides are marginal as the advice is broadly the same for everyone. As for paying hundreds for motivation - if that's what it's about then Zoe's marketing materials should reflect this. They don't.

In other words, the research and the guidance is freely available to us all.

I know someone who thinks they eat healthily, but they are only eating about 4 veg- broccoli, peas, carrots, tomatoes (in pasta sauce) , and they think they are healthy because they eat a vat of broccoli.

But they don't need to pay ££ on Zoe! They can simply do a little bit of research themselves to realise that they're not eating a very diverse diet.

We all know that we should eat a large variety of fruits and vegetables. And to eat lots fibre and to cut down on sugars and refined carbs! There's simply no need to spend hundreds of £!

I don't think anyone was suggesting the research itself is bollocks

Someone said exactly that, today.

Whether they have read the research is not clear.

As before, yes, people can follow the guidance. But if everyone was able to be self motivated, and do things without support, why would be need 'weight loss' clubs, shakes, gyms (costing far more than Zoe) etc etc etc.

It provides people with a) insight and b) motivation.

@RokaandRoll Yes, you are right up to a point.

The difference though is that doing Zoe gives someone a starting point. Without knowing how their gut health is already, they don't know how many changes they need to make.

Given most people aren't healthy, shelling out £290 might make them more motivated. It's the same as Weight Watches or Slimming World. If people pay for something, then they tend to follow through. Like paying to go to the gym- because no one HAS to join a gym to get fit. They can buy weights, exercise at home, or run round the park.

Nor do they know how their body handles lipids, or glucose (although you can now buy the Libre2 for a month, for around £40 , last time I checked.)

I don't think anyone was suggesting the research itself is bollocks - you've set up a straw man for yourself to argue against, @LisaLovedUp ! We are saying that the personalised benefits from spending hundreds on Zoe are marginal and not worth obsessing over. Reading about the research and following the general advice and guidance is a truly excellent thing to do for one's health, however!

Personally, I think it's all just a gimmick. And there is something about that Spector guy I really don't trust...

The people who are sceptical maybe aren't aware of the Twins Program of research that was conducted over 10 years ago. This was TS's research at King's College, and it's the foundation for Zoe.

Also, TS is not working in isolation.
The science behind this (the microbiome and disease) is being trialled across the world, by hundreds of scientists, (researchers with PhDs, and medical doctors) working in immunology and cancer treatments. The dietary advice is also being advised by organisations supporting people with Rheumatoid Arthritis and similar diseases, that are inflammatory diseases.

If someone doesn't want to pay for Zoe that's absolutely their choice. As for the data- no issue there.

The recommendations for cancer patients undergoing immunotherapy are being suggested in the NHS.

But to decide that something being researched very seriously, to try to improve prevention and treatment of cancer and autoimmune diseases, is 'bollocks' - well...

No, you're missing the point entirely. Which is that there is no need to sign up for Zoe in order to, for example, eat 30 different plants a week. Eating 30 different plants a week is great for your health, no one is disputing that. But you don't need to pay £££ to find that out. Your friend who only eats the same 4 vegetables doesn't need to sign up for Zoe to find out how to improve her diet. The information is available for free.

Zoe is backed up by the research you mentioned in another post, but if you read about and understand the research you can take the learning from it to improve your health and your microbiome, again without spending hundreds of pounds on Zoe.

Zoe is a private company and not a charity.

So?

So is Mumsnet and lots of other things you will be buying into.

You're paying to use Mumsnet on your app or your pc.

There's a 'you are what you eat' programme on Netflix at the moment with a Tim Spector introduction if you're interested (they took 22 pairs of twins and gave them different diets)

Additional point: I didn't join to lose wieght, though my friend did. Her weight has gone down to what she wanted and stayed stable; my weight has stayed stable, and I rarely feel hungry between meals.

The test and follow-up diet guidance is excellent. The advice is sensible, but one of the pluses is that it's adapted for your food profile. I got some very useful advice about diet. I don't usually bother with the videos, but I do use the app the scan food when I'm shopping to check the values of pre-prepared food. It's sensible and backed with very recent research.

Overall, I would say it promises a lot for the worried well, but delivers very little. If you really think you have blood sugar or cholesterol issues, get tests from your gp - this wont add anything. The data collection for the zoe project owners will be magnificent, and I'm sure will make them unbelievably wealthy.

This!

If you eat fresh unprocessed foods, including fermented foods and fibre, and if you exercise regularly, your body will most likely be healthy. There's so much free information out there!

And if you have health issues caused by an unhealthy diet or poor lifestyle, then work on improving that first. If you still suffer from blood sugar or cholesterol issues, see your GP.

Zoe is a private company and not a charity. They want to make money. And all of our free samples and huge data will certainly achieve their goals of becoming very profitable.

@Waitingfortulips You forgot to add that there have to be 30 different plants a week, not just more of the same.

I know someone who thinks they eat healthily, but they are only eating about 4 veg- broccoli, peas, carrots, tomatoes (in pasta sauce) , and they think they are healthy because they eat a vat of broccoli.

This. The diet advice is almost the same for everyone and @Waitingfortulipshas summarised it perfectly.

You're missing the point.

The point being that most people in the UK don't even get their 5 a day (only 29% do.) So for one, it's encouraging people to be more aware.

It is still a challenge to get to 30 different plants a week, rather than 25-ish, which I was doing pre-Zoe.

And most people have no idea if they are insulin resistant until they become diabetic. There is a diabetes epidemic.