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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we cannot afford to support Ukraine anymore

905 replies

Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 21:38

This may be an unpopular opinion but it is annoying me to no end and NC

We have a littany of issues crying out for funding domestically - NHS broken. Economy going down the drain. Pound down 20% in one year. Public services collapsing, Education system requiring re-investment, high taxes driving talent out. We can keep blaming our politicians but someone needs to prioritise where money goes - and no one is willing to talk about this

Yet we are spending hundreds of billions in supporting Ukraine in a war which has nothing to do with us. Yes we are morally supporting them but is there no amount which will be too much? We are paying both directly (through weapons and aid) and indirectly (through huge energy subsidies - last totalling north of £200bn) - we need to stop this spending, reduce energy prices, stop this craziness

How is this war something we can afford on the basis on principles and why aren't we more aggressively pushing for a negotiated settlement?

We cannot afford this. It sucks for Ukrainians but this is not UK's bill to foot.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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icefishing · 04/01/2023 22:17

headstone · 04/01/2023 22:10

I think it depends how long it goes on for. Russia is struggling with Ukraine so I don’t know why people are worried about expansion beyond its borders. We gave up with Afghanistan and are happy with half the population with less rights then the average dog.

We left Afghanistan to the local inhabitants.
It was and is a mess. But a very different situation to a European democracy being invaded by a neighbor. ( Who has nuclear weapons )

Original poster
Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 22:16

Aposterhasnoname · 04/01/2023 22:14

You’ve read this OP and your response is “it sucks for Ukraine”

How do you sleep at night?

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So the UK should go and pay for everything which is terrible in the world? are you for real?

OP posts:
Badgirlriri · 04/01/2023 22:16

ColdHandsHotHead · 04/01/2023 21:47

You do realise, don't you, that most of the Ukrainians who came over are providing cheap labour to keep businesses running? I live in a holiday area and last year, the hotels and restaurants were full of Ukrainian staff.

Cheap labour?
you mean minimum wage? Or are they working illegally?

Theluggage15 · 04/01/2023 22:15

Do you actually think countries are spending this money because they want to suck up to Ukraine or something? Unbelievable.

DomesticShortHair · 04/01/2023 22:14

The UK Defence budget is currently around 2% of GDP. During the 80s at the height of the Cold War, it was between 5-6%.

Ukraine is fighting and dying grinding down a resurgent Russian armed forces. If they don’t, then we, along with others, are going to have to step up to contain them. And that would cost many, many billions more. Arms and armies are a lot more expensive these days. How would you like the NHS budget to be halved to pay for that?

For the record, I believe we should not only stand with Ukraine from a moral and not just a military standpoint. In fact, we should be doing a lot more, which is the only way the situation is going to be resolved, and to minimise the suffering of the Ukraine people. I am disgusted with your attitude, but luckily, it’s not one that’s widely shared in this country. Belarus, perhaps.

Aposterhasnoname · 04/01/2023 22:14

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 04/01/2023 21:48

I bet you'd feel very different if the shoe were on the other foot. Nothing we are experiencing is anywhere near as bad as what they are.

I was just reading a story from a couple telling about how they'd been forced to have sex in front of the soldiers and then watch their 4yo daughter being raped. I'd not let that slide just because it'ss getting expensive to put the heating on.

You’ve read this OP and your response is “it sucks for Ukraine”

How do you sleep at night?

FlorenceAndTheVendingMachine · 04/01/2023 22:14

We gave up with Afghanistan and are happy with half the population with less rights then the average dog.

Speak for yourself.

Most people who say 'we' should do something don't seem to include themselves in the royal 'we'.

needastrongoneagain · 04/01/2023 22:14

@Saysomething1234 so which part of the UK would you relinquish if it were part of the UK that were to be invaded in a negotiated settlement?

Pothoswithasparkle · 04/01/2023 22:13

listsandbudgets · 04/01/2023 22:11

@Pothoswithasparkle That's the point - OP wants a negotiated settlement - which would almost certainly mean handing over part of Ukraine.

Western Europe has learned as you say - which is why such a settlement can't be countenanced by us.

It should have been stopped when Crimea annexation happened tbh.

RoseAndRose · 04/01/2023 22:13

We couldn't afford it in the first place. Nothing's changed.

It's about doing what's right

LuluBlakey1 · 04/01/2023 22:13

I agree with everyone.
We can't afford to keep doing it a) It's an unending stream of money with no end point or amount. b) We are, (all of the countries supporting Ukraine), sending huge amounts of armaments which we can not keep up with replacing and , if this situation escalates outside of Ukraine, we're fucked.

We MUST keep supporting Ukraine. The lessons of 1938/39 should remain with us. Putin is as dangerous, if not more so than Hitler. He has nuclear weapons and no sense of what is morally right or wrong.

EffortlessDesmond · 04/01/2023 22:12

We cannot NOT support Ukraine. Failure is only going to give Putin strength. Putin (not Russia) is the aggressor.

Santasjingleballs · 04/01/2023 22:11

Yes you are right we should be thinking of our own here before aiding others….I do like the Hungarian approach.

Original poster
Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 22:11

ThereIbledit · 04/01/2023 22:04

OP you don't seem to have responded to what people are saying about the cost if we don't support Ukraine. Do you think there is any danger to the UK longer term if Russia is successful, either in part or fully? Do you think there are any other consequences to the UK, such as risk to energy supply?

UK should support NATO territories - which means much before anything happens to its own territory we will be involved. Here we are supporting Ukrain without being transparent to the population about the real cost of this war - if the energy subsidy@£200b can be spent without accountability for it, i guess it really is an infinite amount of money UK will stake for this (despite Ukraine being Non-NATO)

Each household is getting pay £2000+ this year (via subsidies) eventually coming out of the next generations pocket (borrow now to tax later). just. this.year.

OP posts:
listsandbudgets · 04/01/2023 22:11

@Pothoswithasparkle That's the point - OP wants a negotiated settlement - which would almost certainly mean handing over part of Ukraine.

Western Europe has learned as you say - which is why such a settlement can't be countenanced by us.

Twillow · 04/01/2023 22:11

Your arguments are selfish and naive, but other posters have expressed why much more eloquently than I can.

needastrongoneagain · 04/01/2023 22:10

And, as others have said, which bit of the UK do you consider it is acceptable to relinquish? I'd be really interested to hear your response to this question. Because that's a negotiated settlement.

headstone · 04/01/2023 22:10

I think it depends how long it goes on for. Russia is struggling with Ukraine so I don’t know why people are worried about expansion beyond its borders. We gave up with Afghanistan and are happy with half the population with less rights then the average dog.

icefishing · 04/01/2023 22:09

We've tried not getting involved when dictators invade European countries, it doesn't seem to end well.

GermanFrench22 · 04/01/2023 22:09

@cantkeepawayforever - that isn't what that chart says. The EU is a massive contributor to Ukraine, second only to the US. So it might look like Germany, France and Italy are contributing less than the UK but they are paying out both as individual countries and through their contributions to the EU.

In terms of the original op when it comes to energy prices surely it's basic self preservation not to buy gas from Russia at this point? Even Germany has belatedly realised this.

Return2thebasic · 04/01/2023 22:08

Compassion and also in our (our children's) own interest.

We need to fix our country without forgetting we are also shaping the future world we (our children) would live in.

Untitledsquatboulder · 04/01/2023 22:07

Nimbostratus100 · 04/01/2023 21:53

Exactly - this war has everything to do with us. This is our war. We cant afford not to fight it. And thank God we are fighting it by sacrificing central heating and luxury deserts, rather than our homes and our sons and husbands.

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Amen. Either Russia is stopped in Ukraine or we get to fight them in Poland or one of the Baltic States. I know which I'd prefer.

dropthevipers · 04/01/2023 22:07

You either know the difference between right and wrong or you don't.

KrisAkabusi · 04/01/2023 22:07

Saysomething1234 · 04/01/2023 22:06

can you pl elaborate. i'm interested in understanding this perspective

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Because if he's not stopped in Ukraine, Russian expansionism will continue across Europe!

Bard6817 · 04/01/2023 22:07

We (uk) are only spending a few billion, not ‘hundreds of billions’…

So in that context, we couldn’t afford hundreds of billions.

We can afford a couple of billion.