Page 2 | Primary school pushing expensive clubs

nowaynotnownotever · 2022-12-02T13:15:16+00:00

I may be BU here so I'll put it to the MN jury and also ask whether I would BU to actually broach the issue with the school. For background I have 3 kids in a primary school and a baby at home. My kids to LOADS of clubs outside of school. A sport, swimming lessons, rainbows/brownies, a weekend music club and in school instrument tuition for the eldest 2. So I feel they do pretty much well! My problem is their primary school has started 'offering' music/performance sessions in school. These are £40/kid/month(!!) and last about 15 mins per week term time. They look loads of fun. The group is regularly promoted by the school and the group produces 'concerts' that as in school time for the whole school and we get leaflets home about it at the same time too. Yesterday my children missed maths for this. And now my 5 year old is really sad she's not joining this club too. I really can't afford £120/month for this (because I can't say no to the other 2 then) and feel loathed to do so when other parents whose kids do it do have told me the children don't really learn the instrument they're supposed to be. I know my children have traditional instrument lessons in school time (so maybe I am being U) but these are not constantly pushed on the children/parents. You get a letter at the start of the year and that's all you hear about it. The summer concert is after school and for parents/families. AIBU to think this really isn't fair on the children whose parents have to say no and that the school are wrong for creating a 2 tier music/drama education?

LlynTegid · 04/12/2022 10:30

I think you should approach the school. You may be good at saying no, others may not be.

Testina · 04/12/2022 10:29

“If it helps for more context I know one child goes home and cries each time they have a concert, the mum is a teacher and can't afford it for her 2”

Odd not to have included that persuasive little nugget in your OP…

Testina · 04/12/2022 10:27

“Do you think people choose to have only one purely on the basis they'll be able to afford to waste money willy nilly?”

Why would you say that the additional money available from having less children is wasted? Are you wasting money on the instrumental lessons and the others clubs you mentioned??

SnackSizeRaisin · 04/12/2022 10:26

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 08:19

@Fleabigg it's less to do with my choice to have 4 amazing children and more to do with my choice to work part time and therefore be present to parent my children and offer them outside opportunity. Both time and money are limited resources and so we make choices of course.

Really weird and very rude to try to shame me over family size. Do you think people choose to have only one purely on the basis they'll be able to afford to waste money willy nilly?! I think not. Or maybe that was you?

No one is shaming you for having 4 children. The fact is many people do stop at 1 or 2 due to the cost of paying for them to have nice things, do nice activities, or even just boring stuff like food and somewhere to live.
Are you shaming parents who work full time and are not there to "parent their children"?
That's pretty low especially as you started this thread claiming to be worried about less well off children.
Presumably it's your husband's well paid job that puts you in the fortunate position of being able to work part time and have 4 children. Good for you but it doesn't make you morally superior to those who have to work more hours or can afford fewer children.

Thefourthseason · 04/12/2022 10:16

I do think we are living in a culture nowadays where we struggle to say "no" as parents.

We overindulge (spoil) them as children and it does them absolutely no favours for the future.

I am guilty of this also but have been consciously making an effort to say "no" more. Builds up their resilience and prepares them for the real world. Also means they appreciate the "yes' " more when it happens.

thelobsterquadrille · 04/12/2022 10:11

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 09:54

Interesting @thelobsterquadrille when I was having babies I certainly didn't think that they might go to a school that would pressure sell an expensive club to the children and therefore I should have less babies to be able to pay for this 🤔

If it helps for more context I know one child goes home and cries each time they have a concert, the mum is a teacher and can't afford it for her 2 (Mumsnet approved number of kids). If she was posting about this what would you say - is she less U than me?

But just because you didn't think that way when you were planning your family, doesn't mean other people didn't. Lots of people don't want to spread their time and money between multiple children - others would rather have a big family. It's horses for courses - life would be very dull if we were all the same, after all.

But the reality is always going to be that the more children you have, the more you have to divide your time and money between them. That's just basic maths at the end of the day. If it wasn't this particular club, it would be something else - expensive school trips or residentials to pay for.

As the for the lady with two children - well, of course not everyone is going to be able to afford everything - that's just life. It doesn't change the fact that you choosing to have four children is one of the reasons you're having to say no to your kids.

But that doesn't have to be negative. You obviously love your children and wanted a big family, and they do plenty of activities anyway so there's no need to make a big deal of it.

Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 09:55

Thanks @123woop I think there's little I can do though

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Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 09:54

Interesting @thelobsterquadrille when I was having babies I certainly didn't think that they might go to a school that would pressure sell an expensive club to the children and therefore I should have less babies to be able to pay for this 🤔

If it helps for more context I know one child goes home and cries each time they have a concert, the mum is a teacher and can't afford it for her 2 (Mumsnet approved number of kids). If she was posting about this what would you say - is she less U than me?

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Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 09:47

@NoelNoNoel because school should be a safe space free from advertising, because school should be inclusive, because it's wrong to sell to 4 year olds.

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thelobsterquadrille · 04/12/2022 09:15

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 08:19

@Fleabigg it's less to do with my choice to have 4 amazing children and more to do with my choice to work part time and therefore be present to parent my children and offer them outside opportunity. Both time and money are limited resources and so we make choices of course.

Really weird and very rude to try to shame me over family size. Do you think people choose to have only one purely on the basis they'll be able to afford to waste money willy nilly?! I think not. Or maybe that was you?

You're taking all the comments about your choice to have four children very personally.

People are pointing out the reality - unless you have quads, or a solo child and triplets, having a big family is a choice that comes with consequences - just as you working part-time is a choice that comes with consequences 🤷🏻‍♀️ It's not a criticism to point that out.

And yes, many families do stop at one or two children for that reason - so they can comfortably afford to spend money on a variety of hobbies and activities without having to limit their children. That's quite a normal way of doing things.

Your choice to have multiple children and work part-time means finances are spread thinly. Other people choose to have one child and work full-time so they don't have to worry about money.

Different strokes for different folks.

NoelNoNoel · 04/12/2022 08:55

Why does this bother you so much OP, it’s life that things get advertised and many can’t afford them?

MarshaBradyo · 04/12/2022 08:50

Opt out if you like I don’t think they’ll mind, our clubs are so much in demand you have to book as soon as they go up and the site just glitches out

123woop · 04/12/2022 08:48

YANBU. I agree OP.

Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 08:19

@Fleabigg it's less to do with my choice to have 4 amazing children and more to do with my choice to work part time and therefore be present to parent my children and offer them outside opportunity. Both time and money are limited resources and so we make choices of course.

Really weird and very rude to try to shame me over family size. Do you think people choose to have only one purely on the basis they'll be able to afford to waste money willy nilly?! I think not. Or maybe that was you?

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Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 08:15

@amyds2104 I do think it's good If the school get some payment for it but then again is it fair to push expensive clubs on parents through direct marketing to children and pester power when some families are really struggling with the cost of living crisis?

I'd be happy to get involved with school governance but they've got it all wrapped up with a certain group of parents allowed to get involved.

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Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 04/12/2022 08:11

Testina · 03/12/2022 23:22

“My eldest DD was horrified the instructor was shouting which notes should be being played at the children during the performance.”

Horrified? 🤣
Your little primary schooler is getting a head start on pearl clutching, isn’t she?!
”Look mummy - those children are not studying The Rudiments and Theory of Music!” The horrors!!!

Well she's a big primary schooler and yes she's a pearl clutcher 🤣

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Fleabigg · 03/12/2022 23:25

You’ve chosen to have 4 children which is what’s made it unaffordable. I don’t see why other children shouldn’t get the opportunity.

Testina · 03/12/2022 23:22

“My eldest DD was horrified the instructor was shouting which notes should be being played at the children during the performance.”

Horrified? 🤣
Your little primary schooler is getting a head start on pearl clutching, isn’t she?!
”Look mummy - those children are not studying The Rudiments and Theory of Music!” The horrors!!!

amyds2104 · 03/12/2022 23:00

nowaynotnownotever · 02/12/2022 19:59

@OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside disappointing but confirms my suspicions. Surely it's immoral for the school to receive financial incentives from a commercial business.

Are you part of the school pta or governer or read the school financial report each year. If not get involved because Schools are basically broke! I know If my school was getting a financial incentive for something like this I wouldn’t care one bit of it meant additional funding for the children and young people to attend. Morally is it right? Hell no! But we are in a cost living crisis and austerity crippled school funding.

Parents can choose to say no to these activities.

In regards to the watching of the activity maybe it is too build confidence in the children, encourage others to do an activity not necessarily that one. No different to an assembly type thing.

raise it with the school but tbh you sound quite bitter about this one group when you significantly supplement your childrens education with activities you/them want to do.

also as I was typing Maybe this club offers children that chance whose parents who are unable to navigate clubs outside of school due to childcare/commitments. The ones who can’t do stagecoach or football at the weekend etc. they still get to show off their skills though to their peers.

Howsitgoing · 03/12/2022 21:07

nowaynotnownotever · 03/12/2022 20:43

@Howsitgoing how does your DC feel about you cancelling it? I think a lot of parents are coming to realise its not what it's cracked up to be but are now committed!

She was fine with it because she hated missing whatever lesson was happening when she was away. I said if she really wants proper singing lessons, we can look it in the future.
The concerts were a nice part but I think a big part of that was missing so many the first school years so we took anything we could get!

donttellmehesalive · 03/12/2022 21:00

Just parent your child by telling them no.

If you think they are expensive, poor value, poor tuition, take kids away from core lessons - well, happy days because they are not compulsory.

if you were to complain to school what would that be? Please stop telling my kids about this club because they want to do it and are sad when I say no?

As pp have said, you have no problem with kids watching yours attend clubs that they can't attend.

If school benefit from a % of money paid, then that may be used to fund something that the school wouldn't otherwise have. At our school, it's free music lessons for pp children.

And how often are your children forced to be the audience? You have already exaggerated by saying that lessons are 15 mins when actually they are twice that. Do they perform termly in a slightly extended assembly?

To me you sound like someone who can't bear for your kids to be missing out. If money was no object, they'd be doing it too.

Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 03/12/2022 20:43

@Howsitgoing how does your DC feel about you cancelling it? I think a lot of parents are coming to realise its not what it's cracked up to be but are now committed!

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Original poster

nowaynotnownotever · 03/12/2022 20:41

Howsitgoing · 03/12/2022 19:04

Hi OP,
If its the same one that's peddled in our school, YADNBU.
My daughter is in Year 3 and has been with this "music school" since Reception but last month I sat back and thought about what she actually did and it was stand at a microphone and sing a few lines of a song. No teaching how to breath properly when singing, no warming up, no learning singing quietly/loudly etc and if she was in the first class, she would spend some of the class time setting up! For £40 a month. So yeh, I've cancelled that now. Should have seen what they offered as an alternative over lockdown. Christ.
I guess for kids doing the instruments, it's a bit different but still pricey for that.

Well they are not learning to read or write music, they are not learning to play an instrument as far as I can see. My eldest DD was horrified the instructor was shouting which notes should be being played at the children during the performance.

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celticprincess · 03/12/2022 20:31

You can also blame ofsted for these types of things. They want to see lots of different extra curricular activities and clubs. Schools have to buy them in as the teachers aren’t always skilled and work enough hours as it is.

My DD’s school have o lay just employed a music teacher. DD13 never had a single music curriculum lesson when she was at that primary and DD10 is y6 and they’ve just started. The teacher also offers an after school club for 40 minutes and we pay a small amount of £12 for the term. After school clubs have historically been free but this year there is a music club, craft club and sport club and all have the same extra cost. DD13 started instrumental lessons when she joined secondary - their primary has never offered them. I complained for years about their lack of music. DD13’s instrumental lessons are £75 per 10 week term. Sounds a lot but fairly good value. Only 20 minute lessons but they are 1:1. I know privately they could be around £30. The school also subsides these further for any students taking GCSE music as it’s part of the course requirement. All lessons are during the day and usual curriculum lessons are missed for them. But usually rotated so different sessions are missed.

Children who are entitled to free school meals usually get all these extra clubs and lessons offered for free if they want to take them up. My daughters secondary school has an expectation that all students buy a Chromebook when they start in y7. Different payment plans are offered to pay for these and pupil premium get them given. This is the same for school visits and residential. The secondary school offers loads of extra curricular activities in music/sports extra free but secondary teachers are specialists in their subjects so can offer clubs for free.

The kids who do miss out the most are the working poor who don’t get free school meals so aren’t entitled to pupil premium. I’m a single parent working part time on tax credits and the school assumed I’d be getting free school meals - repeatedly sent me the forms- but I’m not entitled as I work. I do know some on UC who work and get free school meals so not sure where the faint line is for claiming. One parent works more hours than I do. At primary my kids only had school dinners in kS1 when they were free as I couldn’t afford £11 each per week for them both. I did pay for one whilst the other was still in kS1. Now I afford 2 days a week for my primary child. My secondary child gets DLA so I use that to buy her meals and pay for her activities but if she didn’t get that for her disability I would struggle to afford.

I don’t like the sound of this company people keep referring to as it doesn’t sound like a usual arrangement for schools. But ofsted are big on offering loads of extr activities, even if they are chargeable.

Thefourthseason · 03/12/2022 19:44

We were considering rocksteady for our DC (on bass) as it all seemed like lots of fun (already does private piano lessons outside of school) but when I asked about the sessions and discovered they would be during crucial lesson time (literacy/maths) I just couldn't justify that. The school day is quite short and 30 mins of a core subject every week is significant in my opinion. Aside from that I didn't have a problem with the concept. As PP have said; not everyone has the time for out of school activities.