Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

867 replies

Alondra · 31/10/2022 11:55

Apologies for making a second part to this thread but I feel strongly about this issue.

Topgub

Possibly because there aren't any benefits

Few countries have a government system caring about women and children. The majority of our governments don't care if all have to work for a pittance to pay mortgage, bills and food when children are small because average couples need both wages. A system where nursery fees are stratospheric and eating half an average wage, and worse still, because parents working full time, making an average pay to be able to survive, have few serious tax concessions. Those tax concessions go to multinationals.

It's a system that only cares about productivity attached to $. If you are an engineer with projects worth a million dollars, your salary will be minimum 15% of that money annually. If you are a carer or a parent, there is no quoted money attached to your work, so you are in a low wage or no wage at all.

A woman with two kids working full time for an average salary has not gained much from my mother’s time. Working full time, taking care of the kids when they are home and doing the lion share of housework and rarely free time at all.

With housing costs, bills and health systems collapsing, I really fear for women in the next few years. We will get the short straw as we've always done, but it'll be a plus if, at least, we don't turn on each other.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Purplefoxes · 01/11/2022 14:56

Purplefoxes · 01/11/2022 14:54

Not going to list out all the pros and cons as there are many and most are obvious @Topgub but a few are as follows:

Working parent
Pro
Keep earning potential and future pension

Con
May need to pay for holiday/after school care and spend less time with kids

Stay at home parent

Pro spend more time with kids and can provide holiday/after-school care

Con loss of income, less future pension.

Do you think it's just to do with male conditioning? I work full time as does my husband who earns less than me. We could survive on just my salary He's never come to me to ask if he can look after our son full time? It's never been mentioned..does anyone know any stay at home dads?

Show quote history

Realise I have worked that wrong as we both look after our son full time technically! I mean he has never asked to be a stay at home dad.

Purplefoxes · 01/11/2022 14:54

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:35

@Purplefoxes

What are the big pros and cons for each option?

Men don't have this conundrum because they haven't been conditioned to feel conflicted about working

Not going to list out all the pros and cons as there are many and most are obvious @Topgub but a few are as follows:

Working parent
Pro
Keep earning potential and future pension

Con
May need to pay for holiday/after school care and spend less time with kids

Stay at home parent

Pro spend more time with kids and can provide holiday/after-school care

Con loss of income, less future pension.

Do you think it's just to do with male conditioning? I work full time as does my husband who earns less than me. We could survive on just my salary He's never come to me to ask if he can look after our son full time? It's never been mentioned..does anyone know any stay at home dads?

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:53

@AMorningstar

Yes you are

As a society we condition girls and women into thinking that if anyone should be the sahp it should be them.

And we condition boys and men jnto thinking if anyone should be the earner/provider it should be them

People don't conform to gender stereotypes by chance.

It's advertised to them their whole lives. Just like consumerist propaganda is.

How exactly do you propose we change things to allow more men to be sahps while thinking that women have a biological need and right to be? And shouldn't even have to share at all?

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 14:48

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:45

@AMorningstar

Now you're just being completely disingenuous

No I'm not.

Also you'll find plenty of men saying they wish they could be SAHDs bur either can't afford it or feel they'll be made fun of/not fit in with other patents etc. That's wrong and should change. Anyone should be able to be SAHP.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:46

@mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork

Sorry, what do you think is jealousy?

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:45

@AMorningstar

Now you're just being completely disingenuous

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 01/11/2022 14:41

YANBU - yes, it has to be jealousy. I am old and I grew up when most mothers whose husbands could just about afford for them not to work were housewives (my father didn't want my mother to work so we lived in quite straitened circumstances but she was always at home for all of us). Also, there were not so many job opportunities for mothers in the 1950s as many of the jobs some of them had been working in during the war were ended when the men returned and needed them back. I remember watching my mother getting through her day and looking after us all (my father worked from home most of the time but did 12+ hour days so couldn't help) and deciding I never wanted to be a mother/housewife as it was far too hard work and you hardly ever got to sit down.

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 14:41

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:35

@Purplefoxes

What are the big pros and cons for each option?

Men don't have this conundrum because they haven't been conditioned to feel conflicted about working

Who feels conflicted? You clearly want to work. I clearly don't want to work. PP fall into either of those camps. It seems like we are all pretty clear on what we want to me

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 14:40

WifeMotherWorker · 01/11/2022 14:25

@Autumndays123 this, 100% 👏🏼

Show quote history

Ridiculous what you have to tell yourselves because you can't fathom that other women and men want and prioritise different things out of life. You both have dim views of women and of men which is quite sad.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 14:35

@Purplefoxes

What are the big pros and cons for each option?

Men don't have this conundrum because they haven't been conditioned to feel conflicted about working

Purplefoxes · 01/11/2022 14:31

Purplefoxes · 01/11/2022 14:29

Great post! And also to add that people should not make assumptions about a woman's reasons for either working or staying at home. People have the right to choose and for some people the choice is based on necessity, some it isn't, it doesn't make them any less than anyone else. There is no 'superior' option because there are big pros and cons for both options! Once we stop trying to feel superior over other people for our own choices versus other people's choices then we might achieve something more useful!

Show quote history

To add the real question is...why don't men appear to have this working parent/staying at home parent conundrum? Perhaps there needs to be a separate thread for this question!

Purplefoxes · 01/11/2022 14:29

SpookabooAtTheZoo · 31/10/2022 12:42

I really think a lot of it is jealousy from people trapped by their circumstances. Some SAHMs are jealous of women who have the agency to work, and some women who work are jealous of women who have the agency to be a SAHM.

I'm currently an accidental SAHM because we moved from a country where I had full time childcare for free while I worked, to the UK where I can't afford even half the hours I'd need to fund to be able to work. I had a job lined up but had to turn it down.

I think people's anger comes from people feeling trapped in their own circumstances and thinking other people have agency to do something different, not seeing that those people either have limited choices themselves, or have chosen the thing voluntarily that doesn't work for the jealous person.

What we need isn't to tear people apart for their choices or the things they have done out of necessity, but to support a system that enables EVERY woman to have the agency and choices so she can feel fulfilled and happy, regardless of whether that is as a SAHM or a working woman or a bit of both.

Great post! And also to add that people should not make assumptions about a woman's reasons for either working or staying at home. People have the right to choose and for some people the choice is based on necessity, some it isn't, it doesn't make them any less than anyone else. There is no 'superior' option because there are big pros and cons for both options! Once we stop trying to feel superior over other people for our own choices versus other people's choices then we might achieve something more useful!

WifeMotherWorker · 01/11/2022 14:25

Autumndays123 · 01/11/2022 12:55

The problem Morningstar, is that you have an extremely outdated view on women and the woman's place in the home, to the point it is offensive. It really isn't 1920/30/40 anymore, where women existed only to breed and rub their husband's feet (among other things).

Your views on casual sex are closely aligned with your backward and outdated views. It's 2022, women and men can do what they want with their bodies. Who on earth are you to tell people how you disagree with casual sex etc etc. Are you saying that in order to have a sexual relationship a woman must marry a man? It's such a warped view and women for generations have fought so hard to get away from that mindset and have a sense of worth in life other than the babymaker.

I suppose you are content with living 80/90 years in the past but you really are the minority. Women have self respect these days and independence. They don't prance around in their pinnies with their feather duster and relaxing on the chaise lounge like something out of Jane Eyre.

You need to keep your backwards opinions to yourself because it really is women like you that have delayed the progressiveness of women's right. I couldn't give a shit if you spend your time brushing your hair and plaiting your pubes for your DH. If he finds a weak and vulnerable childlike woman attractive then that is of his choosing, no matter how concerning that may be and how telling it is of his underlying fetishes.

I think it part, it's not your fault, you seem to have no solid female role models as the women in your family appear to be caught in a cycle of breeding machines like some sort of cattle farm. I do hope you don't impose your thoughts and values on your daughter though, and want more for her than you have managed to achieve in your life.

I also understand that you think there's no way on earth your DH will ever want out of the marriage, despite only being a few years in. I think you're in for a rude awakening. People by their nature resent lazy People. You've already admitted your husband works long hours and did all the night feeds for your children so you could be rested. Rested for your day of resting. It's ridiculous and that resentment will build, particularly when the looks start to fade and you have the ambition and drive of a lettuce.

@Autumndays123 this, 100% 👏🏼

Worriedddd · 01/11/2022 14:17

I think there's nothing wrong being a SAHM to pre school age children. I think school age up is bordering on dodgy men don't have to stay married. They can divorce at any moment they wish , spousal maintenance isn't paid forever judges prefer a clean break. Effectively the house wifes living standards will severely reduce. I work as a HCP so not a capitalist job. I feel secure and safe earning my own money. I really enjoyed having DD at home and I now enjoy working.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 01/11/2022 13:56

Volunteering is a difficult counter to that as it can be filling gaps the state should be paying people for, however I'd still argue its often not the most productive use of people's skills.

You and my ex boss both. I think it's trickier in reality though. I don't see myself ever having a career in the sense I did before dc1 was born. My original plan was to retrain as a social worker once my youngest started school but after the pandemic, that's no longer possible.

All our local Home Start volunteers for example are either sahms or retired. In an ideal world, they wouldn't be needed but right now they are. The same goes for the food bank and the community hub. Even our local preschool has a committee mostly comprised of part time or sahms.

AloysiusBear · 01/11/2022 13:31

Dinosauratemydaffodils

My point is really more about the fact that our society is based on us contributing things that are really needed.

Volunteering is a difficult counter to that as it can be filling gaps the state should be paying people for, however I'd still argue its often not the most productive use of people's skills. I'd also argue that there are plenty of housewives who don't volunteer or do anything productive and instead spend their time largely engaged in leisure activities that benefit only themselves.

Autumndays123 · 01/11/2022 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Hahah yes that's a good one

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 13:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 13:15

Sigh

You all look ridiculous

Autumndays123 · 01/11/2022 13:15

RedAppleGirl · 01/11/2022 13:10

Maybe you're just not pretty enough for a man to allow you to sit around all day.
Vindictive comments usually come from a place of envy not care or concern.

Show quote history

I would actually say I'm quite easy on the eye and have certainly never had any compliants. However, I tend to value my worth on my mind and skills rather than my tits and hair. If that's all you have to offer a man it's very upsetting. Never mind.

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 13:14

Autumndays123 · 01/11/2022 13:12

It's really not and I'm amazed someone with such low intelligence to the point they are unable to perform basic adult tasks or function without a daddy/husband (I imagine you use this interchangably) has the cheek to suggest someone else is stupid 😂

Show quote history

Why are you determined to continue to show us you can't read? We already know.

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 13:13

RedAppleGirl · 01/11/2022 13:10

Maybe you're just not pretty enough for a man to allow you to sit around all day.
Vindictive comments usually come from a place of envy not care or concern.

Show quote history

We were all thinking it lol.

Autumndays123 · 01/11/2022 13:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

It's really not and I'm amazed someone with such low intelligence to the point they are unable to perform basic adult tasks or function without a daddy/husband (I imagine you use this interchangably) has the cheek to suggest someone else is stupid 😂

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 13:11

zinfren · 01/11/2022 13:10

What do you do for voluntary work @morningstar if that was you?

See, I'm projecting a little because of the loud, anti social neighbour across the road who is a 'housewife' (her children are at school) and that means shout outside, or on her phone, disturbing the retired (it's a quiet area of retired elderly people otherwise) and those working from home like me.

But I think it's a good idea to have some financial independence and it's a good example to set to your daughters, and sons, if you have them.

I used to volunteer helping disabled children.

It's a bit weird to judge everyone by one annoying person you know.

RedAppleGirl · 01/11/2022 13:10

Autumndays123 · 01/11/2022 13:08

I'd also say sitting around plaiting pubes is as valuable as anything else morningstar contributes to society. That and staring into space I suppose

Maybe you're just not pretty enough for a man to allow you to sit around all day.
Vindictive comments usually come from a place of envy not care or concern.