Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

867 replies

Alondra · 31/10/2022 11:55

Apologies for making a second part to this thread but I feel strongly about this issue.

Topgub

Possibly because there aren't any benefits

Few countries have a government system caring about women and children. The majority of our governments don't care if all have to work for a pittance to pay mortgage, bills and food when children are small because average couples need both wages. A system where nursery fees are stratospheric and eating half an average wage, and worse still, because parents working full time, making an average pay to be able to survive, have few serious tax concessions. Those tax concessions go to multinationals.

It's a system that only cares about productivity attached to $. If you are an engineer with projects worth a million dollars, your salary will be minimum 15% of that money annually. If you are a carer or a parent, there is no quoted money attached to your work, so you are in a low wage or no wage at all.

A woman with two kids working full time for an average salary has not gained much from my mother’s time. Working full time, taking care of the kids when they are home and doing the lion share of housework and rarely free time at all.

With housing costs, bills and health systems collapsing, I really fear for women in the next few years. We will get the short straw as we've always done, but it'll be a plus if, at least, we don't turn on each other.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Original poster
Alondra · 31/10/2022 14:19

Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:37

@Alondra

Being a stay at home is a lifestyle choice.

Not a job.

It is not the govts job to fund lifestyle choices.

Paid care roles should absolutely be better paid. Actual carers should be better supported.

It's not a lifestyle choice. Many women can't stay at home caring for their small children because they need their wage to pay for living essentials, even if their net take pay is crap when nursery and couple taxes take most of it.

A serious institutional change towards women would go like this.

  1. Free nursery fees up to market average wage
  2. Parents staying home with small children up to school age receiving a basic salary.
  3. Care work positions being costed.
  4. Health care to children to be considered priority within 24 hours.
  5. Parents working full time to have unlimited family leave if their child have a serious health condition certified by a doctor.

You may all add to it. But until the day our societies recognise the value in $ that stay home parents and carers provide to governments and how little most of us women receive, we are all sidestepping the real issue.

OP posts:
RandomMusings7 · 31/10/2022 14:13

I get and respect being a stay at home parent. But I will never respect being a housewife/househusband (no kids/grown kids) or having that as an aspiration. I think you need to earn your own living if you want to name yourself a functional adult. And that goes for both genders.

Wiluli · 31/10/2022 14:02

I do not have issues with anyone being a housewife ? I have issues with people wanting to be portrait as superheroes for being one .
Has a mum to girls I admit I would I prefer them to have a career outside the house than being housewife’s or sahm’s . But that is not because I have an issue with people who do it , because it often comes with an added loss of financial independence .
As the person who earns the most in the household I admit I would have liked longer maternity leave and added security ,but I’m not sure I would choose to stay at home unless I was a millionaire and really did nit need anyone’s wages

Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:46

@Fairylightsongs

Good point.

I've never seen a man accused of being jealous of the systemic issues that result in women wanting to be sahms.

Or bitter that they aren't sahds

Fairylightsongs · 31/10/2022 13:44

I don’t understand the concept of jealousy here. I assume these posters who think this think men are also jealous of them, or are they some way thinking it’s a ubiquitous female trait to not wish to work but stay home and do chores. In this day and age do people really think this way?

of course there are some women who don’t wish to work. As there are men, and quite a lot of them going by the sheer volume of cocklodger threads.

But it’s not the majority, do people really still see women like this? That we really don’t want to work and prefer to stay home doing laundry or other household chores`/

I am a woman. I am married to a man. His salary would have made it more than feasible for me to stop work if I chose. I did not and do not choose. I love working and my career. I love the mental stimulation, the financial independence, the social side, the job satisfaction, the financial independence and contribution.

I don’t want to stay home and clean and cook. I am not envious of women who do. I don’t want to be paid for. Just like my husband. He doesn’t want to stay home and clean and cook either.

i really cannot comprehend on 2022 that there are still people out there who actually think given a choice as women we would prefer to live in the 1950s. We do not. Sure a small minority do. But I certainly don’t and I don’t know any woman who does. My friends, my colleagues. None of us want to stay home and most of us could do if we so chose.

we fought long and hard for social and economic equality. This attitude of its jealousy all women would chose to wash pants given the choice has to stop. It’s so wrong it’s lost sight of right.

Aussiegirl123456 · 31/10/2022 13:38

Ah, just you do you. Whether that be work or home duties. YOLO and all that, as long as you’re happy then who gives a damn what anyone else thinks? You can get criticised for working or not working, long hair or short hair, kids or no kids, married or single, fat or thin. You won’t please everyone so just do what works best for you and your family. Different strokes for different folks

Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:37

@Alondra

Being a stay at home is a lifestyle choice.

Not a job.

It is not the govts job to fund lifestyle choices.

Paid care roles should absolutely be better paid. Actual carers should be better supported.

Original poster
Alondra · 31/10/2022 13:34

Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:25

@Alondra

I dont want a society that truly values the role of sahm though.

The role offers nothing of value to society. That is my experience. Those are my thoughts.

Society valuing children is a different subject.

Yes, governments, like you, think there is no value in costing care for children, disabled or aged. It's the reason why stay at home mums and care work has no pay or is lowly paid.

I believe in a different, kinder society. There is more than enough money to fund it except multinationals want to get richer without paying taxes.

OP posts:
Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:28

What systemic disempowerment has prevented the previous op from making her choice?

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 31/10/2022 13:28

I must have missed something as I struggle to understand OP’s point.

The only « issue » people might have with SAHM/W is that they are not paying tax on earning therefore not contributing to society (vs working and paying taxes + using nursery which also helps the economy/employment).
Except that, personal choice!

(I have been both SAHM and working mum so honestly I don’t care what anybody does)

Original poster
Alondra · 31/10/2022 13:26

Personally I think this thread is going to die a death because nobody on it seems to want to listen to each other about the issues raised. Which is a shame because as I said in my first post, the systemic disempowerment is what we should all target our energy at. But as Brian said, there's no helping some people.

It's that systemic disempowerment that made open this second thread, knowing it's going to die pretty soon.

OP posts:
Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:25

@Alondra

I dont want a society that truly values the role of sahm though.

The role offers nothing of value to society. That is my experience. Those are my thoughts.

Society valuing children is a different subject.

luxxlisbon · 31/10/2022 13:20

Shouldn’t you be busy with your kids, housework and hobbies?

Original poster
Alondra · 31/10/2022 13:20

Topgub · 31/10/2022 12:42

@Alondra

Why the need for the insults?

It's far too subjective.

You think people critiquing the choice are nasty.

They think they're just sharing their view, as asked.

If the op didn't want people to share their views on her choice, she shouldn't have started a thread asking them to.

Very few choices in this life are immune from criticism and judgement.

There's nothing special or scared about being unemployed.

It's not above judgement

Insults are not subjective. They can be brutal or passive, but both are clear insults which is what the OP was talking in her original post.

We can all do much better than offering paternalistic crap when a woman is posting something against what we believe. We can offer our experience, our thoughts and what realistically may happen if they are not protected by a job without having to turn on them.

Until the day we women understand that what keeps us down should not be other women, we will not get the serious change needed to replace $ for a kinder society that TRULY values stay at home mums and children.

OP posts:
Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:17

@PeekabooAtTheZoo

Being exasperated by unfounded general accusations of jealousy isn't taking it personally.

And you're still not getting the irony.

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 31/10/2022 13:12

@Topgub There was literally one other poster who mentioned jealousy briefly and she didn't go into the potential systemic reasons for that. Absolutely nobody on this thread has made "accusations" against you and yet you seem to be taking personally nearly every post that doesn't agree with you.

Personally I think this thread is going to die a death because nobody on it seems to want to listen to each other about the issues raised. Which is a shame because as I said in my first post, the systemic disempowerment is what we should all target our energy at. But as Brian said, there's no helping some people.

AnnieDav · 31/10/2022 13:12

Today I saw a meme about stay at home mums being cross about being asked what they do all do - the gist was that they’re actually run off their feet. Which I think is the case go pre school age children.

But the narrative that it’s like that when you have school age children annoys me- our household has the same admin and cleaning and washing etc but it all has to be done outside working hours. If I had six hours a day to get home stuff done, my life just would be much easier.

I work term time only. That makes my life much easier than someone who doesn’t. I am happy to admit that! I hate the constant race to the bottom.

Topgub · 31/10/2022 13:06

What does TAAT mean?

I dont hate sahms.

I do hate any notion of never judging or criticising women's choices because of 'sistahood'

Up there with be kind pish.

PAFMO · 31/10/2022 13:04

cofeetablebook · 31/10/2022 12:40

I didn't read the last thread. Can anybody offer a synopsis?

SAHMs hate WMs and vice versa
Ain't nothing like the sistahood and this ain't nothing like the sistahood.
Rinse and repeat. The OP of the first thread (which was a TAAT) isn't the same one as this one.

Cuppasoupmonster · 31/10/2022 13:03

Notplayingball · 31/10/2022 13:00

Yep, let's close down all discussion. On any controversial topic.

Show quote history

Yep. Getting tired of the thread marshalls. Who do they think they are? We’re grown women and we know where the ‘exit’ button is.

Worriedddd · 31/10/2022 13:02

I used to be a SAHM until DD was 3-4. I did have her young and me and OH are still together. I'm now 29 and I feel I have much more agency and equality in our partnership because I work full time. I don't regret being a SAHM it was lovely but school age I think it's bad mentally for you, unless you volunteer etc. Cleaning and making dinner doesn't take 6 hours a day.

theonlygirl · 31/10/2022 13:01

SpookabooAtTheZoo · 31/10/2022 12:42

I really think a lot of it is jealousy from people trapped by their circumstances. Some SAHMs are jealous of women who have the agency to work, and some women who work are jealous of women who have the agency to be a SAHM.

I'm currently an accidental SAHM because we moved from a country where I had full time childcare for free while I worked, to the UK where I can't afford even half the hours I'd need to fund to be able to work. I had a job lined up but had to turn it down.

I think people's anger comes from people feeling trapped in their own circumstances and thinking other people have agency to do something different, not seeing that those people either have limited choices themselves, or have chosen the thing voluntarily that doesn't work for the jealous person.

What we need isn't to tear people apart for their choices or the things they have done out of necessity, but to support a system that enables EVERY woman to have the agency and choices so she can feel fulfilled and happy, regardless of whether that is as a SAHM or a working woman or a bit of both.

Beautifully said.

I hope you are able get where you wish and apologise for the disgusting cost of childcare in the UK.

Notplayingball · 31/10/2022 13:00

Wildeheart · 31/10/2022 12:56

I’ve reported this new thread. It is deliberately goady and very clearly designed to pit working women and SAHM against each other under the guise of asking an innocent question.

Yep, let's close down all discussion. On any controversial topic.

Topgub · 31/10/2022 12:59

@Wildeheart

Oh for gods sake.

You could just not read it you know.

@Alondra wanted to continue the actual relevant part of the discussion around gender politics. I presume

Absolutely no need to report it.

Kenmasterspoloneck · 31/10/2022 12:56

I think everyone should be allowed to make a choice if it works for them- however you can’t expect a person who has made diametrically opposed decisions to agree with your reasons and to fully appreciate the consequences of those decisions. It is definitely true that being a SAHp leaves you with less choice if your relationship doesn’t work out. Unless you have lots of savings. You may get a decent settlement but it’s usually assets split and a period of spousal maintenance ( often short) and apart from maintenance for kids you are on your own. There’s no ongoing provision of half the ex’s earnings. The longer out of work the harder to get back in to job market. I’m sure it’s true that having one partner at home makes life a little easier but it presents it’s own issues. Disconnect can occur between partners. It happened to my parents as my father went from strength to strength in his career and I’m afraid to say he lost respect for my mother. They grew apart.