To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

time for shaping eyebrows- the key to marital bliss !

@AMorningstar

You keep applying you problems to everyone else.

Other people don't need to be unemployed so they can keep pretty for their ohs. Other people don't need to be unemployed because their ohs are too stressed out to cope with general life (on that point you've gone from he does 50/50 outside of work and all the night feeds to he does very little so as to have enough time for sex)

It might be an added advantage in your relationship.

It's not necessary for everyone else

I really agree with this. This was my other objection to the framing of the issue in the OG thread.
employment was also being framed as a “preference” or “lifestyle choice”, one that some people were more naturally suited to! One woman explained how she would go to work at 10pm after putting her kids to bed and sleep while they were at school. - response “good if that worked for you but that wouldn’t suit me because I’d be too tired”. 😵‍💫😵‍💫.
In reality these “choices” are of course a function of structural factors and privilege.

I completely agree with this. Women experience judgment every step of the way. Men are applauded for working and providing and also given a massive pat on the back if they stay at home to look after the kids. It’s massively unjust.

The only role that society seems to accept is that of a part time working mum. Sadly flexible jobs are few and far between and invariably pay less, adding to the problem of the gender pay gap and a lack of financial independence.

Shape his eyebrows. Not show.

Well, I’ve found it stems from jealousy ‘oh so your husband earns enough that you don’t need to work? That’s alright for some’

We’d be much better off if I worked, but I don’t because it’s better for our family. And works for us. And yes he earns enough. I’m not going to be shamed for it. We’re not incredibly well off but we manage and we’re happier for it.

I’ll never apologise for choosing a path that works for us and makes us happy.

He doesn't have to spend his evenings cramming everything in, so he has time to spend on his appearance. We actually do some of it together - we do weekly face masks and I show his eyebrows for him lol. I bet someone will somehow take offence to this like with everything else!

7 comments in and there goes the jealousy argument 🙄

I said its an additional advantage that can contribute towards a happy relationship. More time for yourself and each other rather than time being stressed at work, away from each other. I don't see why that's particularly controversial.

No but you did say if you didn’t work then you’d more time to invest in your appearance. A comment I particularly enjoyed. 😂

This is where some of the fundamental disagreement comes from, I think. For one I believe everyone should be able to have kids if they want to and it shouldn't just be a luxury of the rich, but I also think society should encourage family life and the role of community and family on a wider scale. You don't. Our ideal societiea probably look very different. Hence we will be unlikely to ever see eye to eye on this.

About me saying comments about employed wives and sex. Someone asked me why families where one partner stays home might have happier relationships and I said it was an advantage to a) have less strwss bwcause both partners arent having to do everything in the evening and b) more time to invest into the physical side of the relationship. Nowhere did I say that employed people don't have time to have sex lol.

But this is a different OP. Gotta give it to @amorningstar for keeping away from this sequel thread. For now.

@RandomMusings7 I hadn't noticed the change of OP! Whoops.

Though I think she's found the thread now

I strongly disagree with you. Stay at home parents do not provide value to governments, and having a child is , in the majority, a choice.

People should check they can afford a child before engaging in sexual activity. Clearly if it was rape etc then it’s different, but having a child is not a right that the rest of society should pay for you to do.

Which ones?

Didn't expect anyone to make another thread but here we are. Nice to see some of my original comments have been misrepresented.

Women should respect and support each other.

I don't think we should, on the whole. Shared XX chromosomes don't confer any responsibility on me to support anyone, at least not on the basis of our common sex. Where I would offer support is for people who are suffering as a result of being the non-dominant sex, who are exploited, domestically, sexually, and culturally because of it, and in the struggle for a level-playing field in which women are not materially disadvantaged because of their sex.

We've never seen a culture or society in which this was the case. I hope, rather than expect, that this will ever happen. But what women do, the choices they make, as a result of that struggle for equality, are down to them. (It's the latter, incidentally, which is and always has been the object of feminism. If additional choices result, all well and good, and perhaps this is inevitable, but this isn't the objective.

I neither support nor denigrate those choices. They are, quite simply, none of my business and in the overall scheme of things are not important.

A lot of women could be at home more but they dont want to as they dont enjoy it or they wont give up the big car, house extension etc.
Its not always about needing the money to pay the mortgage.

Until the day we women understand that what keeps us down should not be other women

'Should' and 'if' are the two most futile words in the English language. It shouldn't be women keeping other women down. But it very often is. I cite as a case in point the quite surprising rudeness and pushback I've had for daring to retain my own family name on marriage. I was genuinely bamboozled by this. I'd have thought, come 2008 (when I married) no one would give a stuff what women chose to call themselves, or what manner of obsolete titles they accept or reject.

Boy, was I wrong. And the in-laws persist in addressing me as Mrs Hisname to this day. It's very, very rarely men - in fact, thinking about it, I don't think any man has ever offered a comment on the subject.

Not really sure what people get out of this behaviour. No one has to defend their personal decisions to me, and I wouldn't consider justifying mine to them. I couldn't personally give a screw how other households organize their paid and domestic labour, and am happy to receive the same indifference/courtesy/call it what you will, in return.

And before this comes across as another 'I'm not like other girls!' protestation, or a bigging up of men at the expense of women, forget it. Men don't have to bother about what they call themselves, as it's not expected they will ever change their names or be referred to by title in a way that announces their sexual status. Nor have they historically needed to worry about domestic labour and childcare, as women have traditionally picked up the slack.

No wonder they can shrug their shoulders and not be bothered. This isn't a ringing endorsement of that.

@Tandora

Oh yeah forgot that bit.

But this is a different OP. Gotta give it to @amorningstar for keeping away from this sequel thread. For now.

@Alondra

Stay at home parents don't provide any value to govts.

It's your job to look after your children.

Parents staying home with small children up to school age receiving a basic salary.

This already exists, its called universal credit.

And of course being a sahm (when its an actual choice) is a lifestyle choice

What else could it be?

This is a good synopsis.

she also said that employed wives had less time for sex and personal grooming and therefore had less happy relationships, but insisted that there was nothing misogynistic about her attitudes.

Thread two
I knew you'd have to have the last word, OP