To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

Jesus no it didn't , I really don't even no what to say to that 🙄

You dont think tone and behavior policing of womens opinions with accusations of damaging or poor mh deserves to be shut down?

I do

If I felt your concern was genuine I would have responded differently.

I dont need anyone telling me how to post, especially when your an hour too late.

Isn't she just? She admitted earlier she's just trying to annoy people intentionally so I'd let her nonsense go over your head. You sound like you were just trying to diffuse the heated debate, didn't deserve that response at all.

Well I really don't think my post deserved that kind of response . You really are a horrible person !

@Wiccan

Oh don't be ridiculous.

My mh is robust enough to show up the nonsense being spouted on this thread. It's hardly taxing.

As if you care about anyone's mh anyway

I completely agree with @the1950sringringring this is now insane! 2 Alpha females going at it for 2 days straight what has anyone achieved ? Please just agree to disagree , this now cannot be good for either of your mental health .

Okay, that was hyperbolic. I don't think nurseries are horrible places but I do think they're better suited for older children and not full time. I've used them myself this way, but not until my kids were 4.

Not currently but its something I've done before and would do again.

almost shut away in nurseries all day instead of interacting with normal life what with the curtains closed, chained to a chair eating gruel? You're being a tad dramatic there.

Do you home school?

@RedAppleGirl

So you have the evidence then?

Of course some women want to conform to gender stereotypes. It's certainly easier.

And of course most people want a family life. That is a biological need.

What isn't is being a life long housewife.

What isn't fact is sahm are better mothers for conforming to a non existent biological need.

Of course babies bond with their father too but I think the bond between a mother and child, at least initially, is different.

I don't think nurseries are all bad, providing it'd part time and from about 2 and up. But babies should be with their parents imo.

As for school I think a lot of schools aren't exactly great environments either so I wouldn't want to be mimicking that from 9 months old. I am happy it worked for you though

"babies are biologically designed to be close to their mother"

What about their fathers? Are they not biologically designed to be close to them too? Did your child not bond with their father due to not seeing them every hour as a baby?
Sorry I think that's the kind of thinking which guilts mothers into staying at home.. I breast fed my son til 6 months when he began to wean (not everyone can I know) .. i went back to work at 7 months and my husband looked after him whilst I was at work.until.9 months.. then he went to nursery 3 days a week at first.. he is very securely attached. He's a wonderful social cuddley boy not afraid to talk about feelings and doing well at school. So where is your evidence that babies are damaged by being with anyone other than mum all hours? How was he 'not exposed to real life' in a nursery? Surely it's more like real life as when they go to school they are not with mum 24/7? He had no.issues going to school or nursery by the way, no clinginess or screaming and crying... If anything I felt worse dropping him off than he felt going. He still has strong friendships with some of those babies he met at nursery who now go to school with him! So why on earth do you think nursery is detrimental.. I would say some nurseries are better than others of course but that's for the parent to check them out. You make them sound like a Romanian orphanage when in reality my son's nursery was like a luxury hotel with forest school and swimming pool! I used to joke with them could I have what he was having in terms of the food they had! I couldn't have given him that at home..the nursery staff were amazing caring people with more patience and childcare training than me!

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Precisely. And also why I can't be bothered engaging with her.

Yep I agree again! My mum was a stay at home parent but she wanted more for me

So was mine, gave up a good job in the civil service to trail around Europe after my father. I grew up expected to go to University (currently part way through degree number 3) and not under any circumstances marry anyone in the military or the Foreign Office. However in my case, biology got in the way. Not the broodiness (that was dh) but the postnatal mental illness. Illness, injury, additional needs, circumstances change. It's easy to have absolutes when they aren't being tested but should your daughters develop postpartum psychosis as I did, I'd hope you'd have more sympathy if it cost them their sense of self and their careers than my mother did.

I'd also argue that lumping all sahps together doesn't help. I worked from my mid teens (around school/University) until dc1 was born when I was 37. The sahms I know socially fit that pattern too. I used to live and breathe my job, it was at points all consuming. I pursued every extra duty, conference and opportunity ruthlessly. Now I utilise those same characteristics for voluntary work. Strategies for encouraging women who had careers back to work are likely to be different from those who have never had what my charming fil would describe as a "proper" job because there are different obstacles in their way. The cost of childcare for example does not factor in my decision at all.

@AMorningstar

Ah.

The i can't prove you wrong so I'm going to stop engaging defence.

Excellent.

I don't want to stop you or anyone being a sahm. If it makes you happy, thats great. For you.

But I absolutely will not bow down to your bullshit claiming the moral highground all the while pretending you don't.

You absolutely judge working mothers. You absolutely think they are failing their children

And that attitude can get tae fuck.

Being a sahm clearly suits some individuals. But there is absolutely no evidence women are biologically primed or have evolved to be one their whole lives. There is no evidence it is anything more than a modern lifestyle choice mostly used as a tool to keep women in their place.

I won't ever agree it is anything other than something women are mostly forced into with a few well off women using it as a stick to beat other women with

And if that annoys you or makes you think I'm mental, all the better.

I'll keep annoying anyone who thinks like you along as I can.

Of course, you can refute a discussion concerning an abstract. There is no objective truth to be found. It could be argued that past societies were religious, familial, and communal. Modern societies are scientific and industrial. Past societies were ascriptive and particularistic and modern societies achievement-oriented. Industrial and urban sociology and the sociology of stratification as opposed to the sociology of religion, the family, and communities.

Some people have this obsession with the stratification of the family unit, in particular, a suspicion based on the loose abstract of power. However, despite these theories permeating policy and societies, women in the main still want men, babies, and a family. How dare they, what about STEM?
So despite 400 yrs of enlightenment, modernism, post-modernism, and late modernism, industrialism, capitalism, and consumerism lashing and raining down abstracts about patriarchy and social pressure. Some are still quite happy to stay and home and be a mum.

Ultimately this is what pisses off the placard bra-burning theorists the most.

But then you wouldn't be able to be on here, for the past 3 days.

I'm only on here till I go back to work tomorrow night.

You think I've never considered childcare or looked into it for my own kids? Unlike some posters I'm not so narrow minded to never consider the other side of it.

Then again how would you know what a childminder does?

My 2 are now 25 and 23, things probably changed since then.

I tend to agree with that. Plus it's literally just someone's living room...no different to my own so what supposed benefit would it give.

Most of the childminders I know spend more time nattering and not watching the kids they are in charge of. That put me off using one!

My eldest has been to uni and got a 1st class honours in forensic biology.

I have plenty, Topgub. But nothing will convince you and I'm not going to play these games with you. You're wrong, I know you're wrong, and deep down you know it too. I shan't engage with you anymore, you'll have to find something else to entertain you. But you'll never stop women being SAHM and your equality of outcome pipedream is just that

Never used a nursery for my 2, they went to a childminder.

@FlamencoDance I'm sure your daughter will go far, sounds like she has her head screwed on the right way and good for you for encouraging her. At my school I watched many of the so called popular girls get pregnant (some at 14!) And go on to have multiple children by the age of 20 without the means to support them and often absentee fathers. It's a choice for them but I didn't want that to be me..some of those women are now trying to forge a career, now their kids are older but it has not been easy for them just as balancing an established career with young children has not been easy. The difference is as I am further along the career process I have the funds to help myself and my son.. Both ways can work however of course..