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To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

867 replies

Alondra · 31/10/2022 11:55

Apologies for making a second part to this thread but I feel strongly about this issue.

Topgub

Possibly because there aren't any benefits

Few countries have a government system caring about women and children. The majority of our governments don't care if all have to work for a pittance to pay mortgage, bills and food when children are small because average couples need both wages. A system where nursery fees are stratospheric and eating half an average wage, and worse still, because parents working full time, making an average pay to be able to survive, have few serious tax concessions. Those tax concessions go to multinationals.

It's a system that only cares about productivity attached to $. If you are an engineer with projects worth a million dollars, your salary will be minimum 15% of that money annually. If you are a carer or a parent, there is no quoted money attached to your work, so you are in a low wage or no wage at all.

A woman with two kids working full time for an average salary has not gained much from my mother’s time. Working full time, taking care of the kids when they are home and doing the lion share of housework and rarely free time at all.

With housing costs, bills and health systems collapsing, I really fear for women in the next few years. We will get the short straw as we've always done, but it'll be a plus if, at least, we don't turn on each other.

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Topgub · 01/11/2022 10:02

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 10:01

To clarify - I'm not saying people shouldn't pay taxes for services. And I would like there to be a sense of community, but the way to do that is not everyone working in a neoliberal hellhole and is instead to go back to community living in villages, with an emphasis on traditional crafts, permaculture and sustainable farming.

We do actually grow a percentage of our own food, but if I start talking about that I feel like I'll be called a "trad wife" in a derogatory sense again. 🙄

And what about people like me that don't want what you want?!!

Should we be sacrificed for your greater good?

Huh,

Huh?!!

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 10:02

Topgub · 01/11/2022 10:01

How are they different?

People aren't killed by the police in the USA for being female for one. Women weren't enslaved en masse. I'm not saying women are never discriminated against but to act like it's the same level as racism is pretty disingenuous.

But if you want to discuss racism start a separate thread.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 10:01

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:50

Racial inequalities are somewhat different but I don't really want to get into an entirely different debate about racism.

How are they different?

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 10:01

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:50

You owe society nothing?? How about healthcare, roads, policing, security, education, socialisation, food(!) (or do you grow your own?), I can’t go on I have to go to work 😂

To clarify - I'm not saying people shouldn't pay taxes for services. And I would like there to be a sense of community, but the way to do that is not everyone working in a neoliberal hellhole and is instead to go back to community living in villages, with an emphasis on traditional crafts, permaculture and sustainable farming.

We do actually grow a percentage of our own food, but if I start talking about that I feel like I'll be called a "trad wife" in a derogatory sense again. 🙄

Topgub · 01/11/2022 10:00

Daddybegood · 01/11/2022 09:56

That sounds quite judgemental & takes away any choice anyone has regardless of circumstances.
Should everyone really live their home/work lives in a way that suits your world view? Really?
Each to their own I say

I'm curious as to how you made that leap?

Although, tbf, dont most people think their beliefs are best?

Bit odd to hold views you think are wrong

Daddybegood · 01/11/2022 09:56

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:43

@Daddybegood

Yes I think not working is fairly widely unacceptable in society

Probably for good reason.

That being said I do think much more should be done to encourage dad's to do an equal share of parenting

That sounds quite judgemental & takes away any choice anyone has regardless of circumstances.
Should everyone really live their home/work lives in a way that suits your world view? Really?
Each to their own I say

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:54

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:52

Haha oh whoops I’m sorry I thought you were @AMorningstar 😂 made sense to me that she might saw this.

@Topgub

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:52

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:51

Wowwwww ok. Definitely don’t have the time for this. All the best to you

Haha oh whoops I’m sorry I thought you were @AMorningstar 😂 made sense to me that she might saw this.

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:51

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:50

@Tandora

No such thing as racism or homophobia!

Just individuals who need to stop pretending they are delicate flowers and make what they want happen!

Wowwwww ok. Definitely don’t have the time for this. All the best to you

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:51

@Tandora

I'm sure @AMorningstar oh provides all those things for her

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:50

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:46

i don’t even know where to start with this. I suppose structural racial inequalities are also a “cop out” because we are all individuals?

Racial inequalities are somewhat different but I don't really want to get into an entirely different debate about racism.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:50

@Tandora

No such thing as racism or homophobia!

Just individuals who need to stop pretending they are delicate flowers and make what they want happen!

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:50

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:38

I do think it benefits society but the thing is - I don't really care whether it does. It benefits me. I owe society nothing. Neither do you. Neither do any of us. We shouldn't have to be miserable for some wider abstract concept of society.

You owe society nothing?? How about healthcare, roads, policing, security, education, socialisation, food(!) (or do you grow your own?), I can’t go on I have to go to work 😂

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:49

No?

Maybe America then?

Non secular state but very mysoginist. Anti women's rights.

Right up your street.

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:47

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:45

@AMorningstar

Maybe you should move to Afghanistan?

Why? I'm not of an ambrahamic religion and don't wish to live in a non secular state. Afghanistan isn't particularly what I'd want.

Tandora · 01/11/2022 09:46

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:26

Gender dynamics are a cop out. People are individuals and that's what matters here. Deferring to your "group" as an excuse is cowards behaviour. Hold men and women to the same standard, women are not delicate flowers who can't make our own decisions.

i don’t even know where to start with this. I suppose structural racial inequalities are also a “cop out” because we are all individuals?

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:45

@AMorningstar

Maybe you should move to Afghanistan?

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:43

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:41

And being a sahm absolutely does not benefit society.

Only the individual and their male oh. If they have 1

Depends what you define as benefitting society. I feel like your ideal society and my ideal society would look very different

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:43

@Daddybegood

Yes I think not working is fairly widely unacceptable in society

Probably for good reason.

That being said I do think much more should be done to encourage dad's to do an equal share of parenting

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:41

And being a sahm absolutely does not benefit society.

Only the individual and their male oh. If they have 1

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/11/2022 09:41

Daddybegood · 01/11/2022 09:35

@Topgub my point was that I wouldn't comment to my working mates if they were arranging a drink on a Friday night. If I couldn't go I wouldn't, no need for me to snarky although i am sure there would be some SAHD who would take the opportunity to make their point too, but I felt the comments I received when I tried to arrange one were resentful digs.
My wider point is that men & women are both the same, and to the ones who are: f*ck em

What! You mean you don't buy into the regressive gender stereotypes that men are chest-thumping, territory-pissing 'providers' and heads of the household, and that women are gentle, caring nurturers in gingham overalls who scrub the floor, cook the food, and have no aspirations whatsoever toward self-sufficiency and individual development?

You are far too sensible for this thread. Begone.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:40

@AMorningstar

The end goal is equality. Obviously.

And a society where everyone contributes where they can.

Not one full of selfish individuals who only take what they can from others

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:38

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:37

@zeven

People have said exactly that about work.

That because some people are stressed every one must be a corporate wage slave.

No one has said everyone should be the same or shouldn't live the lives they want.

They should

It still doesn't remove the harmful impacts on an unequal society. And that isn't ok. Especially when there are no true benefits.

I do think it benefits society but the thing is - I don't really care whether it does. It benefits me. I owe society nothing. Neither do you. Neither do any of us. We shouldn't have to be miserable for some wider abstract concept of society.

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:37

@zeven

People have said exactly that about work.

That because some people are stressed every one must be a corporate wage slave.

No one has said everyone should be the same or shouldn't live the lives they want.

They should

It still doesn't remove the harmful impacts on an unequal society. And that isn't ok. Especially when there are no true benefits.

AMorningstar · 01/11/2022 09:36

Topgub · 01/11/2022 09:33

@AMorningstar

Then why are you so scared of different view points?

Any time it's been suggested that the sahm role is damaging to society you start bleating on about being sacrificed and being barred from doing it.

As a non delicate flower who can make her own decisions it shouldn't matter to you.

No one can stop you doing what you want.

Sexism and patriarchy are a myth. Its just a complete coincidence you whole heartedly conform to gender dynamics.

Yes, only women who want to girlboss are the ones who made their own decisions and everyone else is just brainwashed. What a feminist and non misogynistic take.

I'm asking you what the logical conclusion of your viewpoint is. I don't personally care that you don't like it, ans you can't actually stop me from doing it. But saying things like "a few enjoying it is not a good enough reason", what's the end game with a view like that?

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