"All men cheat, you just never find out about it"

@ComtesseDeSpair I think this is what would ultimately happen if non-monogamy was socially acceptable and considered just another lifestyle or relationship model. People would have the freedom to discuss what works for them and develop a relationship which fits accordingly. Whereas as it is, non-monogamy being generally seen as some kind of deviance prevents many people for whom it would be preference from exploring it and having happier relationships all round as a result.

I don't agree with this.

There is no law that people have to be monogamous.

People have a selection of relationship styles to choose from -gay/bisexual/threesomes/swinging/open/polyamory, etc in fact there's a "lid for every pot" as they say.

What bugs me off if that people aren't honest and sign up for monogamy when it doesn't suit their relationship style.

I think people can be very blinkered and assume other people have all the same kinds of experiences they do themselves.

It's bs, lots of men don't ever cheat.

Are you Marilyn Monroe? Men simply can't resist 🫠

No normal man I know would "push their luck" with their wife's friend 🤷‍♀️

There a lot of anecdata on this thread "proving" the opposite.

I've never cheated.

Anecdata of one.

My anecdata include: Almost every man attached to or married to any of my friends has tried his luck. Numerous married men I encounter in business and otherwise have really pushed their luck, or made bold suggestions, or pursued me relentlessly. All my ex-boyfriends, after marriage, tried to restart things with me. Most of the clients in my old friend's brothel (I know!) were married men.

No it's not, and no they don't.

I know of 1 man who's told me he's cheated. That's it.

I've never cheated. Have I had the opportunity? Yes. Do I like the idea of sex with a woman other than my DW? Absolutely. Could I have got away with it? Probably. But I still haven't done it. Too much aggravation, I wouldn't want it on my conscience, and it's wrong.

Even if you could guarantee no one else would ever fine out how on earth could you live with yourself and your conscience? I know I couldn't. I can't even lie to DH about how much an item of clothing cost

I used to think that good men don't cheat. Well i still think that. But more men than you realise are not good men. Even ones that look from the outside to be decent family guys. Particularly once the normality of family life starts. Its very very frequent especially when they think they can get away with it. And they tell their friends.

Agree with this. I cheated, and one of the worst things about cheating is the fear of being found out. If you could guarantee that nobody else would ever find out, there would be no reason not to, really, should you have the energy to go down that route.

I was going to say exactly this!

@thecatsthecats

Three dozen friends is A LOT!
What made you think that’s little?
I would look at you as someone who collects friends as a hobby 😮😆

One of the more boring reasons I'm monogamous is that I'm not much of a people person. It's another reason I don't want loads of children - multiplies the number of ILs I'd potentially have in the future.

One reliable, safe partner is enough for me at once. I don't like men enough to want two of them!

(I'm not wildly antisocial, but some people seem to collect friends as a hobby. I'm happy with the three dozen or so I've got)

All of this is just based on who you ask. Most people in stable relationships wong be asked. Always remember that mumsnet contains a large proportion of people who've been in poor relationships.

There was a report that between 20 to 30 percent of children weren't the biological child of the 'father'. However this was based on cases where dna testing had been requested, I'd like to hope that the proportion would be considerably less when expanded to other parents. I don't believe women are quite that bad, it's just the grouoing that you take your numbers from.

Most people don't restrict themselves to sex with one person because they have no interest in sex with anyone else from the day they set eyes on their partner; but because the potential consequences of straying from monogamy in terms of hurt caused, losses risked are too great.

Good point.

But the vast majority of things we form societal norms from are just constructs to be honest. We place varying levels of value on these norms. Like stealing from the stationary cupboard, speeding, assault, fraud etc. The only thing that prevents us doing most things are consequences but many people weigh it up depending on their values and may take risks anyway. Infidelity is just another one of those things as everyone has a threshold.

I think it's virtually impossible to live a life where you don't find others attractive and sometimes this extends to us feeling like we could/would like to have more. I think this is completely natural.

But believe it or not, some of us take these constructs like morals quite seriously. After all, if we don't have morals and integrity, what else is left?

I think the only way adultery coud be prevented is by means of science and laws.

The combination of a science based indicator that someone has cheated and the law based theory of penalisation if found guilty of breaking the vows of marriage.

Of course this would seriously limit the amount of people entering marriage (I think) but it would emphasise the importance of the family unit and union and commitment of having children.

Only very serious candidates should apply. 😅

Would it happen - probably not, probably completely achievable in a scientific capacity, but legally, naw men would never pass laws and fund anything which benefitted women.

I think a kind of serial monogamy suits humans best. I agree, generally, men want to stick around to raise their children (although some seem to think that doesn't require fidelity) but that's not the same thing as a partner for life. I think we need a different partner with different characteristics for different life stages.

The reason why humans (in most cultures) are socialised into monogamy is because that's the model that works best for women and men, because most people (on the evidence) do not cheat: they, women and men, want to stick around and raise their children in families.

A lot of posts on this thread are a mixture of anecdote and unsubstantiated grand theorising, but there isn't a shred of evidence to support them. If men were really as people describe, the best model would be something more like other animals: the man sows his oats and clears off, leaving the mother to bring up the child in a female-run commune like in Antonia's Line. It's a nonsense. There's no sign that society is going on that direction or that we are inauthentic the way we are now.

The reality, as far as anyone can establish, is that most women and men never cheat and the proportions who do a roughly the same.

I’m not convinced women are more naturally non-monogamous - I mean, literally centuries of effort in just about every country in the world has gone into repressing female sexuality to discourage women from even exploring sex outside of marriage until very recently. If women weren’t socialised to believe that sex = love, that sex is dirty, that having multiple sex partners makes a woman a slut, that women’s sexual needs are secondary to men’s, I reckon the view of and desire to be non-monogamous would be pretty even across the sexes.

I think this is a really nice thought (and I have no problem with consensual non-monogamy).

But I don't think this is what would actually happen, because the reality is that a lot more men than women are naturally non-monogamous. It just wouldn't work out.

I think it's true in some circles. A family member of mine has a circle of friends who are very 'laddish' (for want of a better word) and they would pass around this kind of sentiment, almost like banter. I have no doubt that they've all cheated on their partners. It's about how they view women really.

I was surprised at how many male colleagues where I used to work had cheated on their partners. But in my friendship group I just can't imagine any of them would (also DH wouldn't). I dont think all men do cheat, but perhaps more than we think!

I think it would be better overall if the cheaters married the cheaters and accepted the odd bit of straying, and the more naturally monogamous stuck together too.

I think this is what would ultimately happen if non-monogamy was socially acceptable and considered just another lifestyle or relationship model. People would have the freedom to discuss what works for them and develop a relationship which fits accordingly. Whereas as it is, non-monogamy being generally seen as some kind of deviance prevents many people for whom it would be preference from exploring it and having happier relationships all round as a result.

I have a female friend whose uni friend group have this attitude. They're all human trash when it comes to fidelity. One of them revealed that the friend in question had been secretly shagging her fiance for about a year before they got together, whilst both were in other relationships.

The rest of us were genuinely shocked.

I think it comes down to the fact that cheating types like to think that everyone else does it to. I think it would be better overall if the cheaters married the cheaters and accepted the odd bit of straying, and the more naturally monogamous stuck together too.

If that's 50% at any one time, that's huge though. A decade earlier or later and the other would ave been at it too IMO.

I don't think many men/people are serial philanderers but I also think a lifetime of monogamy doesn't really work either and perversely, the "nicest" ones are least likely to leave first. If it can all be kept a secret, no one gets hurt.

We’re heavily socialised towards monogamy. Which makes it very difficult for people to have open and honest discussions about sex and sexuality which falls outside of that. I don’t think people so much “pretend” as simply struggle with the concept that love and sex must be invariably intertwined and that loving somebody means you must never find anyone else attractive.