To ask if school mum cliques upset you, or how do you deal with cliques?

This

@Mardyface

Maybe I'm being naive and I'm sure it happens from time to time. And you seem to have sufficient self-confidence to have shrugged it off which is absolutely the correct response.

But TBH I am convinced that in 95% of these "bitchy school gate mum" scenarios nothing of the sort ever happened, it was some massively over-reading something.

What are the chances that some random women who you barely know actually wanted to hurt you or had the time or energy to do so? What possible purpose would that serve? Chances are they don't even know each other that well so they won't have had time to get together and say: "ooh, you know the mum of that girl in 4b, lets all gang up on her?" Human beings just aren't usually that organised.

I feel sure you yourself would not behave like this. I'm glad you've never come across it. But sometimes as an adult it's OK to acknowledge that actually it's not you misconstruing or missing cues or whatever, it is actually just people being absolute shits. There are reasons, of course - usually they have nothing to do with the target but are about the group itself and the way it works (i.e. as a clique). As it happened I was feeling just fine when this happened to me and was able to shake it off - bear in mind this was just one concrete example of a bigger pattern of behaviour towards me and others - but had I been feeling vulnerable I would have felt bloody awful. And of course in response I'm not about to make an effort with that group of people again.

@NerrSnerr

My daughter does 4 drop offs and pick ups out of 10. I do the rest.

If there is someone walking to school at exactly the same time she is - she will walk with them. She's not unfriendly or standoffish. As opposed to clique bitch who parks on her friend's drive so that they both wait for a further half dozen people before setting off en mass in order to claim their clique spot - because they stand in the same place day in day out.

Similarly, I will talk to whoever I'm queuing with at the school and I'm now 'on nodding terms' with many people. I don't go for coffees or to anyone's house with the people I speak to. Neither does my daughter. The different people we speak to are also the ones who probably work different days each week. We can go weeks without seeing the same person twice. We probably have spoken to far more people than the others have who are stuck in their little cliques.

So therefore more sociable after all.

Frankly, it's not mine (or anyone else's) job to ensure that every parent in the playground is spoken to and feel included. I certainly never expected anyone to work that hard on my behalf - I knew it was absolutely down to me if I wanted to make friends.

Exactly this. There's a massive sense of entitlement in a lot of these posts about "bitchy, cliquey school mums". It's as if some people think they are actually going back to primary school themselves and expect to be spoon fed friendships among the mum network.

Then when these people see adult women making their own friends they see it as a judgement on their own social abilities. It's pretty childish.

People will always seek out like-minded folk. It's like that in all walks of life. No one should be deliberately unpleasant or exclude others just for fun but they are entitled to pick and choose the people who they want to be friends with. Just because your kids are at school together you don't have an automatic first right of refusal on these other mums. They are sentient adults and can please themselves.

Totally agree with CaronPoivre

I met my four closest girlfriends at the school gates 15 years ago now. I was always pleasant and friendly with everyone (and continued to be) but I just really bonded with these 4. So as time went on I guess someone paranoid could call us a clique?

Frankly, it's not mine (or anyone else's) job to ensure that every parent in the playground is spoken to and feel included. I certainly never expected anyone to work that hard on my behalf - I knew it was absolutely down to me if I wanted to make friends.

I think some people use the word clique to mean a friendship group they are not part of.

they feel that if the smile and say hi then they should be approached and invited to join, but this is not how social interaction works. No one runs around the school gates inviting everyone standing alone to join them. If you wish to join a group then you need to say more than hi and approach them

and if they don’t want you as core part of the group this still doesn’t mean it’s a clique they just might find you’ve little in common and they don’t enjoy conversing with you. Not everyone is liked by everyone.and that’s ok. They may even like you perfectly much but have little in common with you.

I’ve never formed friendships at my kids’ schools. Never noticed any cliques. Never been in the slightest bit interested in talking to randoms at the school gates. These threads always mystify me.

Some of our closest friends are from primary school and nursery still. Undoubtedly, we stood chatting together and didn't always include everyone else in our conversations. Why would we? If we were discussing our forthcoming joint family's holiday, for example, it would be inappropriate to have someone else just stood there. If someone was upset or new, we'd generally make sure we said hello and asked a few questions, but they might or might not become friends.
Now I am still in regular contact with those friends; we still meet up, go on city breaks rather than Centre Parcs and have supper parties or meals out. Some other parents I would stop and say hello to in the street and ask after the children, some I would nod and smile at and some I would cross the road to avoid. It's not cliqueness, its simply that I prefer some people to others because we have more in common, more shared values and have more regular contact so stay connected.
I don't hold with the idea that children should be told to play with everyone either - they need to learn to be a little discerning in friendships and choose people who are nice to them, who want the same sort of things from life and who want to share in various aspects of their life.

@Mardyface

As an example of something quite conclusive I think that if someone asks you a small-talk based question it's not polite to laugh hysterically and call your mates over, repeat the question and laugh together over what is clearly an in-joke. I didn't care on a deep level because I already had older kids and had made friends at school when they were little, but it was bloody offensive in the moment.

I mean... obviously I wasn't there so I can't be sure. But FWIW I would be astonished if this was meant maliciously:

a) Just because people have in jokes doesn't mean they are your enemy. It means they are laughing at something with their mates which they know their mates will find funny. It's a bit gauche and childish and I probably wouldn't do it but its not evidence of a conspiracy. In jokes are bemusing to outsiders and it's mildly bad manners but they aren't evidence that someone is deliberately trying to hurt you.
b) What are the chances that some random women who you barely know actually wanted to hurt you or had the time or energy to do so? What possible purpose would that serve? Chances are they don't even know each other that well so they won't have had time to get together and say: "ooh, you know the mum of that girl in 4b, lets all gang up on her?" Human beings just aren't usually that organised.
c) In the highly unlikely event that it actually was meant maliciously the correct response is to just walk off and think screw them. Why on earth would you devote any brain space to randoms who are trying to hurt you? No one can afford to devote headspace to this sort of thing.

@bingbummy what activities should I be including people I don't know in? If I have a party, play date or trip to the pub do I have to invite all other school parents?

Yes it's sexist nonsense

Exactly…

To me a clique implies specifically that they shun outsiders and don't readily let others join in their conversations or activities.

Lots of dads do pick ups too… I can’t imagine someone looking at 4 dads chatting and thinking ‘clique’…

I've never spoken to anyone at the school gates, mine's only been there three weeks though, but I'm not interested to be honest. I have friends, I don't want to make friends at school.

Is it a ‘clique’ or is it just groups naturally forming because the kids are the becoming friends, the parents are similar ages, or they know each other from the neighbourhood or school?
mever understood this whole ‘clique’ thing that’s supposed to exists. At our kids schools you end up knowing some parents better than others through the kids usually…
no-one round here has time for cliques, they have jobs, lives, other kids to deal with

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche why is it a bad thing if someone stands with the same people every day? Why wouldn't you catch up with friends if you're going to the same place every day?

When people talk about cliques excluding others, what are you being excluded from? Why would someone I'm not friends with include me in their plans?

My eldest is in year 4 and have about 4 parents that I'm friends with through my children, I wouldn't ignore someone but wouldn't invite a parent I wasn't friends with to the pub.

Just get on with your own school run, if you want to make friends a good place to start is chatting to parents of kids your children are friendly with, join the PTA or say hello to someone who looks friendly.

There really is a difference between friends stood chatting and cliques that develop into "mean girls" where people are excluded for background reasons and it becomes so encompassing that children are also excluded.

By this I mean parents trying to control childrens' friendship groups so they only have play dates/socialise with those deemed acceptable within the clique. When previously friendly enough women dont really want to know you any more and you wonder what you have done (before moving on swiftly). When they isolate other parents and even staff and I have even been asked "what are you talking to her for..." or asking what we were talking about. It has escalated into staff being isolated and their appearance, dress etc openly bitched about. This level of clique usually implodes in due course but it really can become on a par with classroom bullying sadly. Some people never leave the playground.

No - because she doesn't stand with the same tribe day in day out.
🤔

My daughter passes the time of day with others who are stood on their own at the school gates and now knows quite a few mums who she will go to talk to if they are there.

So she's in a clique too now then?

Spot on.

I'm in one of these "cliques" I guess. Me and 3 other mums, we all have one child in reception and the other in Y3 so we've known each other for several years. When my DS1 started reception I didn't know many people, now my DS2 has started I know several. It doesn't mean we are unfriendly. Just go up and talk to someone on their own if you want to try making friends. It's how we all started.

A couple of years ago my daughter heard a 'parent' exclaim "OMG I can't believe she's expecting again, she's only got a three bedroom semi."

This was about my daughter who was just starting to show with her third child.

That is from a clique.

Don't know whether the comment was from a 'parent' or an out and out bitch.

Cliques are more common than people here are admitting.

My daughter passes the time of day with others who are stood on their own at the school gates and now knows quite a few mums who she will go to talk to if they are there.

My daughter also now has a loft extension which turned her house into a 4 bedroom/two en-suite/additional work room, semi detached family home and her children now have a bedroom each.

Meanwhile clique bitch is expecting a fourth child and lives in a three bedroom semi. 🙄

You'll find plenty at the school gates who you will be able to pass the time of day with OP. Avoid the cliques.