To ask if school mum cliques upset you, or how do you deal with cliques?

So you do consider school parents to be a community? Someone up thread called them randoms

And the really sad thing, is that all this vitriol and censure being directed at the Queen Bitches in their coven is utterly pointless - because they couldn't care less. Not in a deliberately cold, shunning way but because I expect you don't appear on their radar, anywhere. Why should you? I bet they don't expect to appear on yours either. They're just too busy getting on with their lives and stuff.

This kind of bitterness and ire is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to suffer.

Yes.

The point very much still stands.

Mumsnet is a massive website these days, not a community.

It's no coincidence that those describing women as 'the bitches, the witches, the coven, the Queen Bees' and ascribing all sorts of highly negative, nasty behaviour to them.........are the ones standing alone in the playground. Funny that.

Whenever I saw groups of other women chatting in the playground I just assumed they were, you know, friends and never had a problem with that. I never once inwardly seethed and titled them bitches and witches. And whaddya know - I easily made several new friends.

And yet you come onto Mumsnet.

This I don’t really understand, either.

If Mums are all bitchy, cliquey - and we’ve now got ‘boring’ to add to the long list - witches, why hang out here?

Maybe it because underneath the one thing many of us have in common - being mothers - we’re actually also humans, who are capable of being funny, entertaining, knowledgeable, helpful, etc, etc…

Maleficent 7, that's a rather limited repertoire of conversation subjects, just talk about something else

Helping out at school events is a good way to get to know people better. You may find all these queen bees, bitches and witches are just the same insecure humans as everyone else. Stop thinking the worst of people.

Tbh i found school gate mums the most boring people to be friends with. Who wants to have competitive conversations about their offspring ?...so glad i don't have to stand around like a lemon making small talk nowadays.

Strongly agree with all of this. In fact, I’m sure I’ve agree with you before on this topic, @Thepeopleversuswork (I’m a regular name changer).

Some of the words being used on here - ‘cliques’, ‘bitches’, ‘bullies’, ‘witches’, ‘covens’, ‘queen bees’, ‘awful personalities’. And people wonder why others aren’t rushing to welcome them with open arms.

I’ve been doing kindy and school pick-ups for more than a decade and have moved on from the school gate, but I don’t recognise the behaviour described here by the so-called ‘excluded’ people at all.

Yes, of course I have witnessed groups of friends talking. But I haven’t viewed them as ‘witches’, ‘bitches’, ‘cliques’ or ‘covens’, any more than I would describe people meeting in the kitchen at work to chat in this way.

It is so bitter and, well, unfriendly.

It took me a good few years of persistently being friendly, and yes - actually putting myself out there with offers of play dates and birthday parties to really get to know people.

I now have some genuine friends who’ve gone from helping each other when needed, to being there for each other through some truly challenging times and who I think the world of. I wouldn’t be without them, and the school gates are a thing of the past.

But by all means, continue to think the worst of people, if it helps you to feel better about the situation.

I don't even notice, and I couldn't care less...

I don't even notice, say hello, have a chat if anyone wants one, then go on with my day.

THIS!

But most of the time people aren't deliberately "ignoring" someone. They're busy or they're talking to someone else or they are short-sighted or tired or depressed or they just have to get home. There are a thousand reasons someone might not smile or chat to you, most of which have nothing to do with you.

People always assume the worst possible motives to these little interactions. To suggest that someone blanking you amounts to "bullying", as someone else did upthread, is just an absurdly paranoid way of looking at the world.

Most people just wouldn't be able to get through the day if they were required to comply with the rules people demand in order not to be seen as "cliquey".

I agree. When mine have been in reception, we always invited everyone in the class to a party. As they get older they chose their own friends which is of course the norm. But certainly in reception I was always inclusive.

It takes 2 seconds to say ‘hi’ to someone and smile 🙄

So how do you manage this, do you run around the school yard talking to every single child and adult? I’ve never seen anyone behave like that. And if you don’t then arguably you’re ignoring them as you know them and are not talking to them. What about in the supermarket. Do you run round every cashier you know.

In terms of exclusion, there’s a big difference between ignoring someone when you don’t know who they are, and ignoring someone when you know exactly who they are - I actually don’t think this is ok in any social context but maybe I’m just old fashioned…

Merely commenting on the people and the behaviour which made my daughter's life very difficult for quite a long time.

They appear to have herd mentality.

Hmmm - herds of women who make bitchy comments about some women for other women to laugh about.

There's a lot on here that are denying this exists.

Hmmm 🤨 Safety in herds?

Agree with they're just forming a friendship group not a clique.

However some parents do end up friendly than other. At DS's school this ranged from only playdates with one or two - obviously suited the parents to some people going on holiday together. I made one good friend and several other friends at primary.

DS went to a different secondary from most of his class so I don't know if it still goes on.

Interestingly DS2 goes to a SN school and I don't know any of the parents! And he's never had a play date.

Exclusion can be a form of bullying. However, by its very nature it's hard to prove and easy to deny. No one thinks you must talk to everyone. But I would say blanking someone who says hi to you is exclusion. Not inviting your child's friend to their party because you don't know or like the parent is exclusion too.

But smiling and nodding isn’t putting yourself out there. I think this is the key issue, you’re not the first to say it. I smile and nod, they don’t approach me. You need to make the effort. They are not going to come up to uou and say hey come talk to us you smiled and nodded.

All these people saying put yourself out there... have perhaps not had the experience of putting themselves out there continuously, smiling and nodding and being totally blanked.

I do not really care about making friends with the other mums. But I do care about my DC being excluded because the parental clique extends to the children.

And you are either lucky or niave to have never encountered a queen bee dynamic in your own life and think that these awful personalities do not relish in trying to manipulate playground friendships and encourage their children to do the same.

smile and say hi! I think you're going to have a more pleasant time if you don't overthink this. Start a conversation

I have literally never come across behaviour like this.

I wonder if its a small town thing? In cities people just don't have the luxury of behaving like this.