To be upset that toilets at primary school turned mixed sex without being told

For hygiene reasons alone I would be extremely unhappy about this, I would not want my daughter sitting on urine boys spread every where.

In Primary my daughter was in a class of 7, Autism unit, one other girl besides her, both started to develop breasts at 8. Even though the class were taught together about puberty it did not stop those two girls getting comments. So much so neither would use the legal mixed toilet. The comments were always challenged by teachers.

By 9 the other girl was having periods and she ended up out of school during that time as she came to terms with the changes. My daughter eventually started periods at 11. She still refuses to use the toilet and is uncomfortable around any male.

some children may be okay in mixed facilities but not all are, is it not kinder to provide a choice so children can be comfortable and feel heard, building confidence, rather than grow afraid or anxious?

But girls do share. They share classes and . They share activities etc

But they should not be forced to share spaces when they are vulnerable such as when they are removing layers if clothing to use a toilet.

We have not eliminated all the harm boys and men can cause to women and girls. So why should girls be put at risk so parents can pay themselves on the back at sone false idea of " equality "

Statistically there is a rape a day IN SCHOOLS. Including primary schools.

Teaching boys (and girls) about gender stereotypes, sex differences (including periods) and how to differentiate between the two, puberty, how to hold and respect boundaries...
These things should be taught at a young age.
Personally I found it a huge benefit as a child to share with boys and girls (bedrooms, tents, toilets though not cubicles) because it meant I grew up seeing us as equals and human, rather than othering the opposite sex.

Having worked in KS1 for 20 years, the boys' toilets are covered in piss by 10.00 unless strictly checked. Eg, one in and out, then checked. Impossible if only one adult!Seats, floor, walls, you name it! Wherever they can aim is fair game. Anywhere but the urinals. The stench is awful and not fair on girls who have to sit down.

Shockingly, in my town a council run school just had to close down after a four year old little girl was sexually assaulted by a six year old boy in mixed sex toilets. It happened about 2 years ago now. Almost every parent removed their child (unsurprisingly) so the council shut the school

That’s shocking. Sadly many schools seem to be in a push to do this even though it is miserable for most kids esp girls and unlawful.

The School Premises Regulations 2012 reg 4 is very clear. Single sex from the age of 8 unless a proper unisex room (the accessible type with handwash). Do not let them fob you off by pretending a cubicle is actually a room - a cubicle is a cubicle and not a room.

Boys and girls are separated at that age for good reasons. Girls start getting their periods and both sexes start becoming aware if their physical differences. Mixed sex cubicles teaches the children that their personal boundaries for privacy from the opposite sex will not be respected. It is the antithesis of the boundaries and consent taught in PSHE.

I am horrified that schools are doing this to kids. Police can’t prosecute more than 1.4% of all rapes, there are 200+ rapes reported each year in schools and yet they deliberately erode boundaries and remove safeguarding.

Seems an extreme length to go to rather than I dunno, acknowledging the 2 sexes have different needs and providing separate spaces that accommodate those needs.

What benefit is it to girls to share with boys?

Its apparently beneficial to boys so they learn about periods. What do girls get out of it?

DD10 would flat out refuse to use mixed sex toilets at school!

It could be made a requirement for school attendance.

This is going against Health and Safety, Building Regulations, and the specific rules for schools, OP. So, no, YANBU, the school is well out of order.

Sex and gender are different. Which do you mean?

There's literally no problem here...

Most girls will start the first stages of puberty during key stage 2.
Several girls will begin their periods before they finish primary school. This is not uncommon and well within the norm. At least 1/3 of the girls in DD's primary school class began their periods by the end of yea 6, some early. Almost all had started puberty and were showing physical signs of puberty, a number from year 3 onwards.

Key stage 1 - I'd have no issues generally with single sex changing and toilets.

Key stage 2 - I am very much if the opinion that changing for people should be single sex, or at a minimum a private space for those not happy to change in front of the opposite sec. And toilets should have single sex provision too, along with bins for sanitary protection, etc.

Yanbu. It's the future unfortunately. 😔

But that's down to parents ams teachers. Not 8 and 9 year old girls trying desperately to get to grips with it themselves to teach boys by osmosis at the cost of their private spaces.

I was a very active feminist at primary school age and against the view that boys and girls are different due to their sex.
I was also very angry when adults tried to force me into the boys' toilets because I had shirt hair and wore trousers or tried to force my brothers into girls' toilets when they had long hair. So we and our friends decided to break down the divide by using whichever toilets we felt like using.
I would have been angry also at the gender essentialism expressed by some trans views (George in Famous Five was very wrong for thinking she had to be a bit if she liked doing cool stuff!) and soperhaps, had that issue been widespread then, would have reverted to backing sex-based toilets. Things have changed now and I can see that emphasising biological difference while calling out gender stereotypes or faux science claiming innate character differences etc. might be a priority.
I'm not sure that teaching children to hide from the opposite sex is the way forward though. Wouldn't it be better if males were aware of periods and the like from an early age? My sons certainly are as they've seen them and I've explained them to them since they were three.

Surely all children are entitled to the same levels of safeguarding?

Why are some not worthy of the same safety privacy and dignity the single aex facilities offer?

All children have a sex. Whether they like it or not.

Wht are adults so keen.to remove boundaries. Who benefits?

What would work well is to have a male toilet, female toilet and then mixed toilet. That way everyone is catered for

It must be horrible to not know what toilet to use if you are transgender

FFS

@FarmerRefuted No one has objected because what you have described is fine and legal.

She 'sheer wokery' comes about when schools rebadge facilities which do not meet those standards because Stonewall or a similar organisation has said they should in order to be kind to a child who has been told it's OK for gender to override sex based safeguarding.

In what way is it sheer wokery?

DC school with the toilets in the cloakrooms are self-contained cubicles with handwashing facilities inside. It's a relatively new build (c. 15yrs old) and open plan in design. The children are aged 9 and to 13.

DC who go to the older-built school are aged 3 to 9. EYFS (age 3 to 5) are in a newer built, separate unit. The toilets in there are small sized and are mixed sex as is typical for that age. The rest of the school use the mixed sex toilets at either end of the school as described in my post. The toilets have floor to ceiling doors. There is a self-contained accessible toilet available next to the office too. Weirdly no one has raised any issues about this set up.

You can get toilets with locks that can be opened from the outside quite easily if you know how to. They manage it on hospital wards, care homes, etc.

Whatonearthisgoingonhere -- Here's a very recent thread from the Feminism board which may be useful.

The OP has put her own inquiry/complaint letter in the first post, with references to the specific laws that come into play and questions regarding the reasons for the change and what risk assessments were done, and offers its use as template or starting point for anyone who needs it: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4628218-they-have-turned-the-toilets-at-my-daughters-school-mixed-sex

I hate this untrue message that girls won't hit puberty until high school so there's no need to even think about it. My PS took this attitude and there were no disposal bins for sanitary pads and no accommodations. I had my period and a bra in year 5 (Australia but I think that's primary school in most places). This is not so uncommon and needs to be taken seriously. Treating young girls in the most vulnerable stage of their lives as though they're an inconvenience, are doing something wrong by developing or should just be more like boys is awful. Late primary school should be setting the stage for testing girls respectfully by having separate toilets, changing areas and accommodating all period needs early. Separate bathrooms needs to be no later than year 3 so they girls can mature into bras and periods with privacy and dignity. It's an awful thought that young girls could be embarrassed by their own development because they have no privacy.