What do you count as a 'professional' job?

Doctor
Lawyer
Architect
Airline Pilot/Air Traffic Control
Armed Forces
Nurse
Teacher/Lecturer
Social Worker
Police
Accountant
Vet

I know but you don’t have to have them to be a police officer in the same way you have to have a nursing degree or an architectural degree, etc.

One that gives you access to Costco individual membership.

Signed,

A sore and bitter non-member

Several or all of: professional registration required to practice, ongoing training require to maintain registration, protection of title, post 18 training and qualifications, autonomy in practice. Carries risk and responsibility for being sued.

@ThisShitsBananas @TTabithaTittlemouse I third that! I'm surprised some people don't see nurses as being professionals tbh

My dog trainer has done extensive training, does CPD, is a member of two professional bodies but I doubt most people would consider her in a professional occupation.

Yes but the difference is your dog walker does not need to do all of that in order to call herself a dog walker and operate as one.
With many professions you cannot operate in that role unless you are registered and you cannot be registered unless you have certain qualifications sad you cannot renew your registration without CPD

I just think anyone who is specifically trained to do something is a professional in that thing. A bit like when my husband wants to fit the laminate in the hall and I think, nah let’s get a professional to do it.

I would add military officers and clergy, neither of which necessarily have degrees, though many do, and are counted as professionals to sign passport photographs.

My dog trainer has done extensive training, does CPD, is a member of two professional bodies but I doubt most people would consider her in a professional occupation.

@ThisShitsBananas same!

You do know that nursing requires a degree, a professional registration and that we can sign passports 😂

@Noteverybodylives what do you do? Are you a professional?

As a nurse this thread makes me quite sad!

• own personal interests

In addition to qualifications and membership of a professional body I'd say that being a member of a profession requires you to apply relevant professional standards outside of your work. Eg, a doctor is required to help if there is a medical emergency, lawyers must act honestly and in the best interests of their client, even if it conflicts with their own personal influence. Suspect similar standards of behaviour are expected of engineers, accountants etc. Presumably also teachers and nurses so they would also be professions.

Doesn't there have to be a bit of 'altruistic' in the definition?

I don't think so. To take an extreme stereotype, a corporate lawyer would definitely fill the various criteria for being a 'professional' but wouldn't need a shred of altruism.
Maybe you're thinking more of 'vocations'?

Is this what you mean?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/methodology/classificationsandstandards/standardoccupationalclassificationsoc/soc2020/soc2020volume1structureanddescriptionsofunitgroups

They have a broad definition for 'professional occupations': A degree or equivalent qualification, with some occupations requiring postgraduate qualifications and/or a formal period of experience-related training.

Yep.
This is what's used by those of us who need to be able to define professional occupations.

Doesn't there have to be a bit of 'altruistic' in the definition?

And a code of ethics?

So take nursing.

When I first worked for the NHS nurses could be

SRN / RGN /RGHN
SEN
Auxiliary

None of them took degrees (that was just coming in)

The 'State Registered' or 'Registered - type of nurse' did three years training, possibly longer if they had done a pre nursing course.

SEN - did a 2 year course, they worked as nurses but could not progress to higher levels such as sister, senior sister etc.

Auxiliary - had no or very little training

RGN and other 'registered' nurses have at least a diploma but under the latest training they have to take a degree.

You no longer get SEN nurses, some converted as part of various upgrade courses, others worked until retirement. You might get the odd one still around.

Auxiliary also no longer exists, HCA have taken their place and they take level 2 and level 3 training courses.

So if you go for:

Highly trained
Professional body that you need to stay 'in good standing' with or you cannot work
Code of ethics

Then nursing is a Profession, but in the past it wasn't, or wasn't entirely.

Nurses now work in much wider roles than they used to, they are involved in research and publish work in journals, not things nurses training in the 1960s / 1970s would do.

Is this what you mean?

www.ons.gov.uk/methodology/classificationsandstandards/standardoccupationalclassificationsoc/soc2020/soc2020volume1structureanddescriptionsofunitgroups

They have a broad definition for 'professional occupations': A degree or equivalent qualification, with some occupations requiring postgraduate qualifications and/or a formal period of experience-related training.

Something like teacher, doctor, lawyer, dentist. I'm not sure if I'd count any office worker? My first thought was no but then now I think about it I'm not at all sure why or whether I'm right about this!

One that you can be "chartered" for.

Not true

Oh dear.

You do realise nurses need a university degree AND that they can sign your passport if needed?

Something that you have to be formally qualified to do.

That's different from career roles, which you need experience and qualifications for

Of course nurses need to go to University and get a degree 😂

They are also listed on the list of professionals that can sign passport signs.

A professional has to subscribe to a professional body in order to maintain their qualification and in return gets extra letters after their name to add to their degree/s.

Not true.

Seriously, there is an actual definition provided by the national office for statistics. They use the Standard Occupational classifications (SOC) these are also used by universities when gathering statistics on what their graduates do.

Not things like nurses, TAs, dental assistants etc as you never needed to go to university to do these (probably changed now).

Err.... nurses require a professional qualification and registration with the NMC. They also have to submit evidence of CPD in order to renew their registration. They can be struck off for professional misconduct.

I don't know about you but I'd far rather be cared for by a fully registered nurse who produces evidence they are up to date with modern medicine and current practice and is monitored by their professional body.

One that you can be "chartered" for. Or need a degree and qualification to get into. So traditionally things like accountant, lawyer, doctor but more recently things like engineering, marketing, purchasing and supply which you can sit an exam for a postgrad qualification at some Chartered Institute. Or something like social work.

That's not the same - obviously - as acting in a professional manner. You can be the most professional shop assistant, mechanic or waiter in the world, but it's not a "profession".