What do you count as a 'professional' job?

I don't think it does at all. Nursing and teaching degrees are three years and require placements.

Lawyers and accountants need a first degree, for lawyers this is followed by solicitors or bar exams and then a period of articles or pupillage. The process is about seven years as for medicine.

The bar to enter those professions (A'Level grades/rounded achievement) far higher than for nursing or teaching.

Very true.

Haha goodness! Tbf not many 15 year olds say they want to be a careers adviser!
There's a great clip online which is from a kids tv programme which has a schools careers adviser just telling children to be a careers adviser!

It's a great profession though. I'd highly recommend it :)

Definitely some misinformation about nurses flying about. For quite a few years now, a university degree is required to qualify as a nurse. We are also registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council, which is a regulating professional body. In order to stay registered we are required to pay a fee every year, as well as revalidating every 3 years (demonstrating continuing professional development) If our professionalism or practice is brought into question at any time (inside or outside of our employment) we can be brought before a panel and potentially struck off the register. We are nurses whether or not we are employed, as long as we stay registered, and in case of emergencies (even outside of work) we are required to act within the scope of our profession.

Gone are the days when nurses simply reported to a doctor and “cared” for people, it’s a highly skilled and often autonomous role. Nurses are absolutely professionals.

Your list suggests that nursing/teaching/social work do not require qualifications?!

Why/how are they different from the list directly above them?

They're not...except that they tend to be women rather than men but I'm sure that's a coincidence in peoples thinking and historical perceptions...

Your list suggests that nursing/teaching/social work do not require qualifications?!

Why/how are they different from the list directly above them?

@TheMoops a careers advisor once asked me what career I wanted. I told her I wanted to be a careers advisor and she kicked me out of the room and told me to leave 🤣 I was 15 and 100% wanted to be a careers advisor! Thought that might make you laugh...

True professions
Medicine/dental/veterinary
Accountancy
Law
Something that requires post-graduate study and a period of supervised practice defined by time/post qual practice.

Linked to the above:
Architects
Actuaries
Pilots
Chartered Surveyors
Engineers
Opticians/Chiropodists/Physios

More vocational but require quals
Electrical engineers
HR
Quantity surveyors
Certified/technical accountants
Clergy
Etc

Vocations
Teachers
Nurses
Social workers
Etc

The manual trades
Electrician
Plumber
Carpenter

This is also a good way of measuring it IMO.

Nurses are definitely covered - they have to complete mandatory CPD, meet certain standards, and can be struck off for malpractice. TAs definitely aren't.

It's part of my job to analyse and understand data on the jobs university graduates go on to do so i need to have a clear understanding of what constitutes a professional job. I've been astounded by some of the replies on this thread that suggest teaching and nursing aren't professions! Of course they are!

I'm a qualified ( but not longer practicing) Careers Adviser. The fact that is considered a profession must blow the minds of some people on this thread!

I think the reason for this is based on the fact that people who hold professional accreditations are usually held to formal codes of conduct and can be stripped of their registration/job if they e.g. lie on a form. A PhD is not.

I'd go with this.

E.g. an engineer might mainly work on site, but will need professional qualifications. Same for clinical professionals, who do not work in offices.

Jobs that require some form of professional registration/qualification or equivalent also usually involve CPD, and keeping skills up to date, so I'd say that is a factor.

To me it’s a really outdated term, that sounds like it was invented by a bunch of middle class white men in order to exclude others.

It doesn’t say anything about the level of skill, qualifications required, earnings or usefulness of a job.

I always think it’s ridiculous when you need to have a form signed by a ‘professional’ to vouch for you. So the teacher I live next door to can sign it, but his PhD educated wife (who I’ve known for longer than I’ve known him) can’t sign it because her job doesn’t count as being a ‘profession’.

(And if a PhD isn’t a hardcore proper qualification I don’t know what is!)

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. There are Chartered company secretaries who are professionals.

Old fashioned and completely out of date!

Love this question. I've never thought about it.

However, TA is definitely not a professional role. Sorry!

Difference is that the vast majority of limited companies don't need a "qualified" company secretary and literally anyone can act as company secretary. So simply holding a company secretary position doesn't mean you're qualified or professional.

But there is a Chartered Institute for Company Secretaries, and a set qualification. Listed companies need a qualified company secretary. It's not just the director's wife!

I think the signing passport photo list is a bit misleading - that just lists people who can easily be tracked down if the passport application needs following up. Not necessarily those in a profession.

Of course nursing is a profession. We have to have achieved an approved course of degree level study (or equivalent if like me you're old and trained before it was degree level). We are monitored by a professional body who we have to pay and have to show evidence of CPD to. If our standards are not up to scratch, we can be struck off the register.

howshouldibehave · Today 11:13
ThreeblackCats · Today 11:02
According to ‘old’ theory, there are three professions. Medicine, law and the cloth (religion) . So call me old fashioned, but that’s how I measure ‘professionalism’ .
😂

So being a dentist isn’t a profession?!
Being a dentist is a profession. It’s medicine!

😂

So being a dentist isn’t a profession?!

According to ‘old’ theory, there are three professions. Medicine, law and the cloth (religion) . So call me old fashioned, but that’s how I measure ‘professionalism’

old fashioned indeed! By about 500 years

Totally agree that teaching assistants aren’t professionals. Just been having a look at the SOC classification, interesting stuff. It says some admin roles count but it’s quite specific regarding which roles and responsibilities count as a professional. Ie you need to be a company secretary or a registrar or some civil service level 7 jobs or advising government on policy. There was some other stuff as well but I got the impression that an office manager doesn’t count

According to ‘old’ theory, there are three professions. Medicine, law and the cloth (religion) . So call me old fashioned, but that’s how I measure ‘professionalism’ .

In the same way that some TAs have degrees or are qualified teachers, but you don’t need them. Being a Teaching Assistant is not a profession.