What do you count as a 'professional' job?

I don’t need to Google, thanks.

The OP asked for personal opinions on what counts as a ‘’professional’ job’.

To me, that is one of the professions, the definition of which I (personally) think has expanded since it was just legal, medical and clerical. How far it has been expanded is still subject to debate.

Other posters might think of professional as opposed to amateur.
Or professional behaviour versus unprofessional behaviour.
Or specialized education versus training or versus being untrained.
Or Chartered versus membership of professional bodies (like plumbers or bartenders).

The ease or difficulty of someone being able to step into a new job role doesn’t factor into my definition. Not many people have the qualifications, skills or temperament to do my teaching and training jobs. And I certainly can’t step into a nurse’s shoes!

My definition of a ‘professional job’ has no bearing on my respect for people doing jobs that I don’t consider to be ‘professional jobs’ (or ‘professions’).

I wonder if some of it is around whether as a professional (accountant, surveyor, solicitor, architect, etc) it is possible to set an organisation and practice as an individual. Something nurses/teachers/policemen/non professionally qualified civil servants, etc., can't do.

Something you need a degree to do.

@FeelingInTheWrong that's interesting about the colour uniforms. In my trust all nurses at band 5 weather you have been qualified 3 months or 3 years wear the exact same shade of blue. Specialists nurses wear purple tops and outreach nurses and sisters wear similar navy blue you don't know who is who.

@DifficultBloodyWoman you need to Google the defination of a professional and familiarise yourself with the correct term. People often seek a professional when they are in need of that particular qualified skill. Nurses have many of skill it takes years to pick up the ropes and not anybody could step into nursing. Same applies for teaching we cannot all teach our kids like a teacher can.

Nurses have to have a specific qualification plus maintain their registration with the NMC, by completing regular study and other things. They pay £140 a year to maintain their registration. Of course they are 'professionals'.

Pale blue top or dress: Junior nurse
Dark blue top or dress: staff nurse or sister

There’s no differentiation between a junior nurse and staff nurse anymore - every nurse is a staff nurse regardless of how long they’ve been qualified for.

Where I work, all the staff nurses wear the same colour of uniform and the only differentiating factor is what colour epaulettes they wear over their shoulders.

Qualified under a year : light blue epaulettes.
Qualified over a year : dark blue epaulettes.

When you get a Sister post your tunic/dress becomes a different colour to those of the staff nurses. Where I work you only need to a nurse for two years before you can apply for a Sister post.

It does make me wonder whether if nursing were instead dominated by 50 year old white men called Chris and John it would suddenly be deemed to be ‘a profession’ by those denying that it is on this thread!

Isn't opinion irrelevant if nursing is officially considered a profession by the powers that be?

The white male thing end up being redundant really as it's only internet randomers with odd opinions that seem not to recognise the nursing profession.

Oh, I think they were and that many of the sends were absorbed into srn roles due to their practice.

I am able to meet nursing students and I don't think many are of the same calibre as the girls from my school who got 3/4 O'Levels in 1978! It's quite scary.

I'm not sure the SEN/SRN roles are combined? These days, the basic care work is far more likely to be carried out by a HCA.

Nursing needs to change significantly and anyone who calls themselves a nurse should be absolutely committed to basic nursing care. Thats where it starts. Historically it used to be covered by state enrolled nurses. SRN's did more complex work and everyone knew who was who. The two roles should never have been combined.

There needs to be absolute clarity about who is who and it needs to be made clear to every single patient. At my local hospital there are people in: pale blue, dark blue, a pattern, red, scrubs, etc. I think the dark blues as sisters.

I'd like to see something like:

Patterned top and apron: health care assistant
Green top or dress: student on placement
Pale blue top or dress: Junior nurse
Dark blue top or dress: staff nurse or sister
Red top or dress: matron

How one identifies the nurse practitioners, etc, goodness knows but any profession or vocation will be defined by its weakest link and this is what has happened in the UK.

Nail. On. The. Head.

It does make me wonder whether if nursing were instead dominated by 50 year old white men called Chris and John it would suddenly be deemed to be ‘a profession’ by those denying that it is on this thread!

I genuinely believe it would! We already know that when a previously female dominated profession becomes more 'male' we see salaries rise! It would make sense that the perception of the job would change too.

The point about a university professor is true too. If a profession requires you to be an expert then a professor is the very definition of that!

Agree @TheMoops and @EugeneLevysEyebrow - very definitely a throwback to times when only the white, middle class men (preferably privately educated) did those jobs. Nursing and teaching (esp at primary level) are predominantly done by women, so there’s still mindset amongst some that they can’t possibly be professions.

@TheMoops i agree. Plus the fact that the old narrow definition of a profession doesn’t include a university professor (despite it being basically the same word from the same root) shows how ridiculous it is!

And on your point about professions often being ‘white middle class male jobs’ it’s very interesting that there’s been so much debate on this thread about nursing. A career which is female dominated, less ‘middle class’ than some other careers, and has a high proportion of non white people in it, many born overseas.

It does make me wonder whether if nursing were instead dominated by 50 year old white men called Chris and John it would suddenly be deemed to be ‘a profession’ by those denying that it is on this thread!

The world has moved on.
The working world and the labour market develops and changes over time. We no longer have such a narrow definition of 'profession'.

I think it was highlighted earlier but the list of traditional professions consists of jobs which were (are??) considered elitist and were predominantly carried out by white, middle class men.

We now recognise other roles as professions, and rightly so.

Disagree about the qualifications- publishing is a profession which doesn’t have official qualifications as such. It’s full of people with English degrees…

My nursing degree was so draining!!!

I certainly don’t have long summer breaks and just a few lectures a day like some (not all) degree courses.

My degree lasted about 45 weeks of the year and as well as doing all the required academic studies we are expected to work 40 hour weeks, 13 hour shifts, nights and weekends. And as well as doing the assignments and exams alongside that, we also had to complete really complex competency booklets for each placements and the work required for that too (many reflective essays).

Some of my Uni days meant attending classes that ran from 10am through to 19.30pm.

It was absolutely gruelling.

And then when you finally get your qualification you are registered with a professional body and have to do annual CPD as well as go through a rigorous re-accreditation process every 3 years to maintain our registration and remain on the nursing register….which we have to pay for every year. We are professionally accountable for everything we do and can be struck off the nursing registrar if we do anything that compromises our professional status.

As has been said, nurses have so much more responsibility, qualifications and autonomy now compared to how it used to be and the old view of ‘nursing’ is so out of date.

Many of us do post-graduate training at Masters Level and when you get to the role of a Specialist Nurse they work at Bands 7 and 8 and work very independently of doctors.

Nursing is absolutely a profession but sadly the antiquated stereotypes of what a nurse is or what a nurse does prevents that from being acknowledged.

We will forever be known as just the doctors skivvies who do nothing but give bed baths, change dressings and fluff pillows. I’m not saying these things are not important, and providing basic care is incredibly important to all nurses but we are so, so much more than that.

This thread is conflating working in a professional role and working in one of the seven professions, ( doctor, lawyer etc…). The professions are not superior to other occupations just historically defined as the professional roles. They require a higher level education, qualifications beyond this and audited CPD BUT, in current times, so do many other jobs. I think it is fair to say that nursing and teaching are professional roles but not professions.

I feel the same. It’s frustrating! My nursing degree was one of the most mentally and physically challenging experiences of my life, it was in no way easy. I have a previous undergrad degree which was a walk in the park but funnily enough, more respected 🙄

Medic here!
Most of the nurses I have ever worked with are truly professional. They are often really undervalued by the medical profession and under appreciated by the public they treat.
More value and respect needed.
Nurses are medical professionals

Have you completed a degree in nursing? Can you back up your claims that it’s an easier degree academically?

Whether you do the foundation year or not, you need to demonstrate a certain level of academic ability to progress to the degree level course. My degree required A levels at A/A/B for example.

As well as the academic course (which is full time for 3 years) you have to complete a significant number of practice hours alongside it, otherwise you cannot enter the register.

Nurses complete significant academic training alongside working long and stressful hours on placement. We have to revalidate (I.e provide a significant amount of evidence of CPD, practice feedback and written reflections) every three years. We pay to be registered with a professional body, and adhere to a professional code of conduct.
Many of us have additional post registration qualifications at masters level.

We are professionals, and it is hurtful to have that challenged. Apologies for being super waspy about it though 😣

This seems a bit unnecessary. Can you see why it might feel like you are being deliberately denigrating towards an entire body of professionals? Have you completed Nurse training yourself?

But surely that's irrelevant.

I could consider anyone a professional but that's pretty pointless if we're just going to make it up.

We can think whatever we like but at some point, reality is going to determine whether you're right or wrong.