What do you count as a 'professional' job?

Many occupations that aren't professions earn more than the professions. Besides, there are many interesting jobs outside of the professions. While people in the professions are certainly needed, we would live in a very bland world without artists, skilled tradesmen, and entrepreneurs. We would also struggle to finance these ventures without the backing of developers and investors.

Membership can be a total waste of time anyway, for some professions and is meaningless.

Being a chartered engineer adds zero value and isn't required in my field. All the things they claim, all the benefits are complete BS. Might be different in civil as it's often a requirement but not for aero, automotive, defence, nuclear or many other industries.

The ONS says you are.

No; the ONS definitions aren't about being 'a member of a profession'. They're about 'professional occupations'. Their description is that they are "those are those "whose main tasks require a high level of knowledge and experience in the natural sciences, engineering, life sciences, social sciences, humanities and related fields. Most of the work involves applying a large amount of theoretical knowledge to practical tasks, conducting research to widen that knowledge, or disseminating that knowledge (for instance, by teaching)."

So university lecturers as well as researchers clearly fall into this category despite not being 'members of a profession' in its much more limited sense.

The ONS description should answer the OPs question; a 'professional job' is defined by function, not renumeration, dress code, location or job title.

The ONS says you are.

It's an aside but these days I don't find the police professional in any meaningful meaning of the word.

I know there are decent police officers because I've met them. But right now when the Metropolitan Police, my local force, is in special measures my confidence is a bit shaky.

And I'm a middle aged white woman. Heaven knows how I'd feel if I was a young black man in a nice car.

I think of professionals as those being governed by a professional body. The police, doctors, nurses, teachers, SWs etc. Those who aren't TAs, HCAs, any admin band etc are support roles within professional services.

I’m a teacher now.

Rosesandhellebores
what an utter load of nonsense. I interpret your post as ‘I don’t have much respect for nurses therefore they are not a profession’.

Every profession has qualified and unqualified roles by very definition.

Really interesting! In mental health (at least in my trust) we don’t have “sisters” or “charge nurses” We have clinical team leaders. Perhaps because we have a far higher proportion of male nurses than other fields. We don’t wear uniforms either. I’m band 6 in a specialist community team currently and we are all classed as care coordinators or community psychiatric nurses.

Hence the reason it's considered out dated. We don't need to be alienating half the potential work force by using stereotypical language.

Band 6s are the Deputy Charge Nurses.......it's no wonder the public get confused about who's who when there's so much variation throughout the UK. Perhaps a national standardisation is what's required ( along with that large pay rise!)

True….but I can’t see the male Band 6’s being happy at calling themselves a Sister😂

Our Band 7’s are the Ward Managers who will also work clinical shifts on the ward if needed.

The Band 6’s are the Sisters and Charge Nurses.

The Band 5’s are the staff nurses.

There are 3 matrons across the unit I work in and 2 of them are Band 8 and one is Band 9.

Male and female titles for the same job are not required.

The Charge Nurse is the band 7, equivalent to the old fashioned term "Sister". Length of experience would determine which band 5 was "in charge" of a shift if the band 6 was off. The Nurse Manager is the band 8, previously known as the Nursing Officer; I've been nursing since 1986 and have never encountered a Matron.

I think Charge Nurse is used as the male equivalent of 'sister', so a senior nurse, in charge of the ward.
I don't understand all the confusion about uniforms- there is a skill mix on a hospital ward, simple as that. No one expects the general public to be able to decipher it- it's there to denote different roles and levels of seniority, and is helpful for other staff. All members of staff should be wearing a badge which clearly identifies their name and job role.

What is a “charge nurse” - the nurse in charge of the shift of either sex?

Charge Nurse and Nurse Manager.

What terms do you use to signify seniority?

Or is everyone just classed as ‘nurse’ regardless of what pay band they are on or how high up the ladder they are?

@DifficultBloodyWoman out of interest what is/was your occupation? Not being facetious, genuinely interested

Uniforms are all standard in Scotland; don't know why England doesn't follow suit?
Also, within our Trust ( not sure about others) we don't use outdated terms like "Sister" or "Matron", nursing is an equal opportunities profession!

Our Specialist Nurses wear the same colour uniform as the Ward Sisters but wear the same colour epaulettes as the staff nurses.

Some very senior specialists nurses wear the same uniform as the ward managers.

Male nurses/charge nurses wear different colour inform to female nurses/Sisters too.

You’re right, patients and relatives don’t have a clue who anyone is.

It’s bizarre.

Social worker is a protected title with an official register, but according to some on this thread it wouldn't meet the criteria for a profession. Same as nursing. Very strange 🤔 and possibly, as others have mentioned, because the professions are mostly female? I don't know.

I replied to RealityLoom because her post appeared in my notifications but a quick (and incomplete) scroll has shown a number of other people have a
Robles with my definition.

To be clear - the OP asked about professional jobs. I took this to mean the professions, a term used for hundreds of years but which has, like lots of words, evolved over time.

I understand that other posters interpreted this differently. But please don’t be insulted by my definition. I believe nurses and teachers are professionals in the sense that they are paid for their work (definition of professional versus amateur).

I also understand that some people have received an education or training to make them professional. For example, there is a significant difference between a professional singer and the local AmDram group. That is the difference between occupation and profession.

I know specialist Nurses who have set up their own private practices. It is possible depending on your particular specialism and qualifications.