Entitled attitude: grandparents must provide childcare

No, I didn’t say I wouldn’t, my mother lives far away and works so would be bananas to expect anything from her, except visits when she’s able. She fulfils this.
as I said it’s not a tit for tat, score settling to point scoring, but expecting care from anyone, is a high expectation
I won’t look after my in laws, their sense of entitlement is maddening.

My point was responding to someone who says the older generation need to pay something back, I was correctly pointing out they already do. Did you mean to be so rude?

The baby boomer generation IN GENERAL had it easier in terms of stable jobs, university grants, lower house prices, free NHS care, final salary pensions etc. Their kids are not so lucky IN GENERAL and are going to have to struggle more, work longer and earn less in less stable jobs. Study after study has shown this.

There was massive unemployment in the 70s
Only 5% of the population went to university
Lower house prices and high interest rates, the basic rate of tax was 33%
The NHS is still free
Women weren’t given entry to many pension schemes and lots of occupations didn’t offer one

Can we have a link to at least one of those studies, please?

you’re also misunderstanding my actual point, which was that no one has the right to demand or expect care. Kindness begets kindness

except when it doesn’t. People can spend their lives providing care whenever it is asked of them, sacrifice their own needs and go over and above for others, and STILL end up having to fend for themselves in old age. It’s not at all uncommon, actually.

The problem is that when people think they’re entitled to something, they don’t appreciate someone providing it as a kindness. They just think it’s what they’re owed, and thus feel little need to pay it back.

An old schoolfriend of mine his mum has his little boy quite a lot. He is one of 8 so she misses a house full of children. She also has her other 6 grandchildren. She often has a couple overnight. She does it because she wants to though and to help them save to get on the property ladder.

The children range in age from 2-13. His dad passed away a few years ago and she has a generous widows pension. She still lives in the same 5 bedroom house he grew up in. One of his brothers passed away in his 20's.

The first one says 'could,' 'theory, 'predicts' and 'suggests.' It also says that this isn't confined to the UK and concludes although it is too early to tell whether young adults' earnings will catch up with those of their parents' generation over the life course. So jury's out on the first one, I feel. The second one is exclusively US. And the third one points out that other countries have it even worse than the UK.

You do realise that women actually created this issue, surely?

Up until the 80s , mortgages were only provided on the main wage earner. Usually at 3X the salary for a first mortgage then 2X or 2.5X for the next one.
Women felt it was discriminatory and demanded that their salaries should also be taken into account and that it was unfair that it was assumed that a woman would stay at home with the babies. ( Incidentally, banks never assumed this, the mortgage offer was based on main wage earner!)

Consequently, couples could then acquire much larger mortgages , yet women still chose to stay at home , in the main.
This led to higher house prices as couples were afforded higher mortgages.

Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity

that'll be a care home, then. You weren't expecting an inheritance, were you?

@Chooksnroses

all your money and your house and all your time according to some on here, they think it’s the least you could do

No, I do not expect that of my children, plus there are many types of parents in this world, not all good. Abusive, narcissistic and neglectful ‘raise’ kids too…

being a parent doesn’t entitle you to anything and I’d never put that on my children.

but seriously though, if you refused to help your child when they needed it with the odd sleepover or baby sit or the odd school pick up as a favour, I mean it’s your right to, but do you really think it’s then reasonable to expect your child to care for you when you need it.

you’re also misunderstanding my actual point, which was that no one has the right to demand or expect care. Kindness begets kindness

I'm not saying care in old age should be dependent on providing childcare, but children are under absolutely no obligation to repay their parents in any way for bringing them up. That is an obligation freely assumed by parents when they choose to have children.

I started work at 17 and finished at 67 following a serious accident. I was gutted having to stop but it physically wasn't really an option to continue. I helped my children whenever I could, but they understood completely when it wasn't possible.

@ancientgran Yes that's a good point actually, a few hours in their company often feels like the equivalent of a bloody good workout at the gym. I'm sure the mental toll of looking after DH is really exhausting. And at the end of the day, grandkids might be knackering (which they are), and they might have you tearing your hair out at times, but they are such good fun and bring a lot of joy.

Yes you’re right.
But OP is referring to the expectation of grandparents to begin with.

This is very different to ‘aren’t we lucky our kids’ GPs help out’ to ‘you are their GP you should be doing this’

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

I don't expect DD to care for me in my old age. She has a life, job and home 3 hours away...I'm not that selfish to demand she gives it all up for me, neither would she demand/expect the same from me.

??? I don't understand? Which system has given me what? And what do I have to give back?

I don’t think you’ve read or understood my message. I didn’t say boomers had a ball, or that nobody from that generation had a hard time or that nothing had improved. I said that IN GENERAL boomers had it easier than their kids. As numerous studies have shown….

You seem to be ignoring that yourself?

www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news/2018/nov/younger-people-could-be-worse-their-parents-generation-their-whole-lives

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/11/politics/millennials-income-stalled-upward-mobility-us/index.html

www.ft.com/content/81343d9e-187b-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640

I'm 69, still have a job although it is part time, am my disabled husbands carer and do childcare for GC. At times it is beyond knackering but I do think having young ones around keeps me young and active, in most ways caring for DH is harder. I think the job is going to have to go soon but that will mean some changes.

I'm in my late 50s. Both my parents worked but all my grandparents were dead, so no childcare there. I worked when my children were small, but both my parents were still working, and lived overseas. My MIL was in ill-health and 80 miles away, so no childcare there. I'm still working, but have no grandchildren. If did have them, how could I look after them, given I'm working?

Arguably they are intertwined, my ILs don’t work my mother still does (so wouldn’t expect it of her) but I was disappointed when my IL who live about 20 mins away have never offered to help, not once. Maybe that’s me expecting childcare? I don’t know.

so in my case it’s not that they don’t want to be involved it’s that they don’t want to make an effort. They expect the children to be brought to them, like they expect care in old age and to be financially provided for in old age as ‘an employee pension is a con’

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

I'm not a grandparent. My kid's only 7. But the thought of becoming a burden on my child in my old age horrifies me. I did not have children as some kind of insurance policy that would see me taken care of in my dotage. If I need care, I'll pay for it, and I hope for nothing other than a loving mother/child relationship as they grow and become independent.

Sadly my own mother - with whom both my brother and I enjoyed a wonderful relationship in our adulthood - didn't live to see old age, much as I wish fate had decreed otherwise. But I know she was of the same mindset.

Any care DH and I do or don't ultimately provide as grandparents isn't with any expectation of that kind of reciprocity.

@breadandmillk

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

your parents looked after you when you were a baby and then a toddler then a teenager and then a young adult…

and that’s still not enough for you…

… you are saying you wouldn’t support them in their old age UNLESS they look after YOUR kids that YOU chose to have. On top of everything they’ve already done for you.

Soooo entitled and mean and unkind

Fair enough. Having a car and travelling and having more clothes than you need are technically irrational decisions as they aren’t essential, and they are detrimental to society as a whole (air pollution, climate change, resource consumption) and you will eventually suffer in the long term as a result of having dirty air, and fewer healthy young working people to pay taxes to fund the NHS. They also involve you spending money that you could be saving or using to hoard resources in the event of another pandemic, recession, extreme government or other unforeseen geopolitical / socioeconomic shock.

Not saying you shouldn’t have these things. Just saying that we all make decisions that are personally beneficially but ultimately not rational. Having kids is one such decision, going on foreign holidays is another.

The negative consequences of having kids often aren’t obvious or guaranteed or foreseeable. Who could have predicted that Brexit, a pandemic and then the Ukrainian war would have plunged the country into a cost of living crisis that will mean many families can’t afford childcare for a few years, when if none or only some of these things had happened they would have been financially okay. Who can predict a sudden redundancy, or the diagnosis of an illness or disability, or the untimely death of a partner, any of which could plunge you into financial insecurity?

If we only ever did things that we knew would DEFINITELY work out okay for them at an individual level, nobody would have kids at all - which for us as a species would be ruinous. Or buy a house, or leave the house, or get on a plane, or do anything

Yes ignore the fact that women earned significantly less than men, that lots of pension schemes weren't open to women, that some jobs might have been stable but have you seen unemployment statistics for the 70s. Yes ignore all that and we were having a ball.

@Lilypickles1 @TiddleyWink

Nope it’s not an obligation, but why wouldn’t you want to? Being a parent is bloody hard and relentless, if you can’t help your kids who can you help? Would also argue if you can’t help with your grandkids do not expect help when your old and need a hand yourself.

your parents looked after you when you were a baby and then a toddler then a teenager and then a young adult…

… and you seriously wouldn’t support them in their old age UNLESS they look after YOUR kids that YOU chose to have. On top of everything they’ve already done for you.

Soooo entitled and mean and unkind