Entitled attitude: grandparents must provide childcare

Err, they’re no longer their parents’ tax liability.

but we are talking about being subsidised by the tax payer...

My children are adults and tax payers themselves. The childless ones are also now subsidising families.
If you're in a position where you take no subsidies, and self fund all your childrens needs, health, education, then you're not in a position where you need free childcare from grandparents.
Those that feel they should be receiving it are presumably the ones not in your fortunate position, so are already being subsidised, but are choosing to overlook that with their stereotypes about older people solely taking and not giving.

There is a massive divide amongst my friends of those who have lots of grandparent help with childcare and those who don't.

The friends who have help have absolutely no understanding of what it is like to have no family support which I find difficult to stomach sometimes.

Agree with this. My mum and Dad help (one day a week and a handful of nights out over the years) and they are still working. Partners parents do nothing and retired earlier than them, but happily help his brother who lives miles away, but not us. My parents will be at the front of the queue when they all need us and my partner totally agrees with this. My kids have a much more closer relationship with my parents too because they make the effort to spend time with them.

i think it's fine to decline giving childcare, but you have to be realistic about both parents working and finding time on their few days off for GP's to see the grandkids. We run lots of errands/have kids parties/shopping at the weekend which we can't do while working. This is one of the reasons my mum sacrifices a day to see the kids as she know it would put pressure on us to find time to meet up on our days off. She knows it would be difficult to have as good a relationship with them otherwise.

It shouldn't be expected, but I don't think it's entitlement, it's desperation. Childcare is too expensive. Perhaps we should all be voting for a government that supports families rather than bickering with each other? Just a thought.....

My German friend pays 160 euros per month for childcare. She has lived here too with kids in childcare and can't believe how much we are expected to pay. It is one of the reasons they moved back.

Err, plenty of grown up dc are subsidised by the tax payer as they may be low earners, still in education/training or even have dc

Err, they’re no longer their parents’ tax liability. That’s what being an adult means.

It takes a number of people, a whole community, to raise children. Our current state of affairs - where one person is expected to look after children alone instead of communally or is expected to pay a fraction of their pay to someone to do it is unusual and causes a lot of problems. It's not in any way acceptable to expect one or even two people to do it alone. It's also very entitled indeed to pay poorer people to act as childcare providers rather than everyone in a society share childcare responsibilities. And it's irresponsible to have children if you're not prepared to support them throughout their lives. I wouldn't want the sort of grandparents with the attitudes OP implies anywhere near my children, however, as my children are being brought up to believe in a cooperative and caring society where we all take responsibility and look after one another.

Eh? I went menopausal when my twins were 3 years old.

For these purposes she is and so am I

What purposes? If you are discussing tax payer subsidies surely what you "took out" in the past is relevant.

Once they’ve grown up they’re no longer subsidised by the taxpayer.

Err, plenty of grown up dc are subsidised by the tax payer as they may be low earners, still in education/training or even have dc 😱😆

What absolut rubbish !

Yes. But we don’t live in caves anymore.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but isn't caring for grandchildren thought to be the whole reason for the menopause?

I suspect I may be slightly unusual, but my dd is nearly 10 and I have never used grandparents for childcare. All our childcare is budgeted and paid for out of our household income. When I was a child both my parents worked and both sets of grandparents literally lived on the other side of the world so my parents used paid childcare too (although DM was a teacher so fortunately didn't need childcare in school holidays) so it's just what I'm used to being normal behaviour.

I see a lot people on mumsnet subscribe to the idea that grandparents are responsible for the world we are living in today. Surely that means that people today can also change the world to suit them

5128gap isn't childless

For these purposes she is and so am I. Once they’ve grown up they’re no longer subsidised by the taxpayer. Adult children don’t count.

There speaks someone who doesn't look after their own kids I think.

I've been a SAHM and it is a sheer labour of love. I don't think I'd do it for my grandkids.

@Blossomtoes but @5128gap isn't childless & I was just disagreeing that she was subsiding everyone with dc. I've not argued that everyone is like me but we certainly exist & I think it's becoming more & more difficult to have dc unless you are comfortable. Which is wrong imo but house prices are prohibitive for many & certainly impacting birth rates.

Fully agree with OP and baffled at the bonkers lot.

SIL is a very good example of this entitled attitude and it drives me and DH crazy because at the end of the day it is all
about accumulating money. They treat my MIL like dirt; they both work, she is on a state pension and yet they won’t even reimburse her for the £££s she has spent on petrol and meals for them over the years, coming out with such drivel as ‘it’s your privilege to look after my kids’.

They are the type that say things like ‘we can’t afford to buy anyone Xmas presents this year’ but somehow manage to have a brand new car, holidays to Florida and their kids are all dressed in labels. Makes me sick.

Look @towelhammer, if you use private healthcare, education and aren’t entitled to child benefit, you’re probably not being subsidised by the likes of 5128 and me, but you’re a very rare exception. Most families with school age children take out more than they pay. Childless people rarely do.

No you mentioned CB, I just said I've never received it.

And you might disagree, but I know my circumstances, and objectively I know I am correct.

😆, Yes I disagree but you crack on

Agree with this. My mum and Dad help and they are still working. Partners parents do nothing and retired earlier than them, but happily help his brother who lives miles away, but not us. My parents will be at the front of the queue when they all need us snd my partner totally agrees with this. My kids have a much more closer relationship with my parents too because they make the effort to spend time with them. It does go both ways.

It shouldn't be expected, but I don't think it's entitlement, it's desperation. Childcare is too expensive. Perhaps we should all be voting for a government that supports families rather than bickering with each other? Just a thought.....

My German friend pays 160 eurosper month for childcare. She has lived here too with kids and can't believe how much we are expected to pay. It is one of the reasons they moved back.

I thought you gave not receiving CB as an example of you not being subsidised. I'm just pointing out that that's almost neither here nor there in the scheme of the subsidies received by families with children. And you might disagree, but I know my circumstances, and objectively I know I am correct.

CB is a drop in the ocean compared to the overall cost to the tax payer of people having children.

where did I claim otherwise? You are the one saying you are subsidising those with dc, I just disagreed.

I haven’t read the full thread but my in-laws are actually the opposite of this. They insist that they MUST have my children one day a week. They then give me 10 days notice that they can’t have them… fine whilst I’m on maternity, not so great when I go back to work next month!
we've paid for childcare all the way through my 2 year maternity leave but they get really offended if I dare suggest that we dont use them. They have a year before my eldest goes to school and we can afford my youngest the extra day at nursery before I jiggle things around that don’t involve them at all.
I have told them that if they carry on insisting they can do it but let me down all the time then they need to be telling their son rather than me as he will the one needing to sort it out 😀

And fortunate enough to get private healthcare with our jobs