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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Caring/mil aibu

96 replies

rocky4321 · 10/08/2022 18:02

I wasn’t sure where to post this, but it really boils down to MIL being what I think is unreasonable and due to it not being my family drama I don’t want to share his private matters for support in RL.

DP has a sibling ‘Sam’ with severe additional needs; non verbal, needs complete supervision 24/7, help with all personal care, has a history of violence, zero sense of danger, dislikes any change of routine etc. my DP loves his sibling unconditionally and will always take care of them but doesn’t feel he has the capacity to take on 24/7 hour care once his parents aren’t able to without completely jeopardising any form of his life now I.E. quitting his career as he wouldn’t be able to work from home with Sam in the house, myself and the kids would have to learn self defence just how his family did, we couldn’t live where we do live etc.

I feel for MIL as her life is absorbed being Sam’s carer (she’s sacrificed her life for Sam and I respect how she does it on a daily basis) and it must be frightening to think that one day she won’t be there for Sam. DP has always ‘known’ he’d be expected to look after Sam once MIL was gone and was never really given the choice if he wanted to or not.

to cut a long story short DP has told his mum that he cannot commit to being Sam’s sole carer but will always support Sam as much as he can to make sure they’re always looked after and has a good life, just not full time in our home. DP has also told MIL that we’re hoping to try for a baby in the near future and with Sam having their own needs (firstly Sam cannot be around noise/kids crying/playing etc) that us having Sam 24/7 isn’t viable choice and as a family they should start thinking of a plan.

MIL has had this news for a month now and is still throwing insults at DP (he’s a disgrace of a son to turn his back on his family, why bother bringing a child into this world when he doesn’t care about his own blood, how self centred he is etc etc).

This weekend MIL has seemed to change tactics from pure guilt into me, DP and Sam to spend more time together. She’s completely refusing to engage in any conversation of coming up with a plan ‘b’ as between throwing insults (which is still constant) is how plan ‘a’ can work. Suggestions on how plan a can work are ‘It’s modern for men to stay at home therefore OP can just work..’ or ‘maybe you’re not ready to be parents if you cannot take care of someone with SN’ or ‘maybe OP will fall in love with Sam and won’t want Sam to be abandoned’ or ‘babies aren’t babies for ever and Sam might not need to move in for 20 years’.

DP has shed so many tears to me and MIL regarding this decision but at no point has she tried to empathise with DP ‘you can think of your own happiness but I’ve got to think of Sam…’

While I wouldn’t put more stress onto DP my patience for her is wearing thin and I’m loosing all respect for her for not considering DP or our family’s needs/happiness at all (let alone the horrendous things she has said for the past month). Luckily I’ve not seen her for the past month but I can imagine her saying something to me and I’ll just struggle to keep my mouth closed. AIBU?

OP posts:
phishy · 10/10/2022 21:24

It's great to say it's 'not for everyone' but my point is, in my opinion, mothers/siblings dont get to just opt out because its not for everyone. You step up, you exhaust yourself, you do what anyone would do for family you love. No one asked for this.

But dads can opt out, eh? It’s great that you’re doing what works for you but you are coming across as quite preachy. And there’s no point in people exhausting themselves if can be provided by professionals.

ImAvingOops · 10/10/2022 20:57

Honestly, I wouldn't spend Christmas with her - you'll just be opening yourself to a barrage of abuse, since you'll be a captive audience! Best to keep your distance until she sees reason.

ValerieDoonican · 10/10/2022 20:10

Bluetrews post is very insightful I think

ValerieDoonican · 10/10/2022 20:09

At the very least some kind of 'hybrid' care seems like essential insurance, so there is always backup should the worst happen.

But I don't think responsibility, or a decision, if you like, can be bequeathed that way. Parents of a disabled baby/small child do make a choice, albeit sometimes it is clear that one option is 'better' for the disabled child. Just because the parents made a particular choice, their children don't have an ironclad obligation to repeat the exact same decision. They have a familial obligation to do their best to ensure sib is safe and well-cared for. But only their best. Not their everything. No adult child's whole life is in the parent's gift like that.

Bluetrews25 · 10/10/2022 20:06

So MIL identifies as a selfless woman who martyrs herself to keep her boy at home and cared for, and presumably pours scorn (openly, or in her mind) on those who 'put' their family members 'away'.
The only way for her to accept your plan is if she can find a different label for herself, but sadly she is unlikely to do a 180 and align with those who have arranged alternative living arrangements for their DCs. She probably feels she could not live with the shame of going over to the other side. After all she's said/thought against it.
Family therapy????

Badnewsoracle · 10/10/2022 19:53

saddenedsosaddened · 11/08/2022 22:13

To clarify, my sister is also violent (due to frustration with all she has to cope with) and needs 24/7 care for a variety of reasons.
It's great to say it's 'not for everyone' but my point is, in my opinion, mothers/siblings dont get to just opt out because its not for everyone. You step up, you exhaust yourself, you do what anyone would do for family you love. No one asked for this.
Rest assured, i'm no superwoman, I have little support and its bloody hard every second of every day but she's my sister, the alternative is NOT an option in my opinion.

In your opinion.

In my opinion, I don't think I should be expected to sacrifice my life and give up everything to care for someone else. I don't think it would be in the best interest of that person either. There are places they'd be much better off than with me.

user97645374895 · 10/10/2022 19:52

saddenedsosaddened · 11/08/2022 20:06

This. i'm the carer for my sister with special needs since our parents passed - The way I have always seen it, my mother didnt have a choice, my beloved sister is just the way she is and my mother couldnt opt out of providing 24/7 care, why would it be different just because i'm her sister not her mother? She deserves to be cared for by her loving family, not strangers, and our mother worked dam hard all her life caring for her, she deserved to pass on with the comfort of knowing it would never come to that.

Show quote history

You’re a wonderful person. From somebody with a child with autism I can only hope they have your mindset in life and always look after and support their sibling as I will with my autistic child and them.

ValerieDoonican · 10/10/2022 19:47

It sounds so so difficult and I doubt my post will help, but just wondered, has Mil thought about what would happen with Sam, should anything happen to you and DP meaning you could not do as she believes you should? Eg you were both in hospital, prison or whatever...

Can you try getting FiL into a conversation about this at least?

BonesOfWhatYouBelieve · 10/10/2022 19:39

HTH1 · 10/10/2022 19:03

Wouldn’t it be kinder to MIL just not to go there? Without wanting to sound callous, the obligation would only kick in when MIL is dead and therefore can’t say anything to you, at which time you can come up with the best plan of action based on your circs at the time. It is literally impossible for her to force you to do anything once she’s gone.

Realistically though, it's not just once MIL is dead. Given the details in the OP about the level of care, an elderly woman may not be able to manage this. But from what it sounds like, if it gets to that point, she won't look for alternative options but continue to try to care for him, guilting OP's DH into getting more and more involved.

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 10/10/2022 19:39

Low-contact or no-contact with MIL might be the only option, as it sounds as though she would not be prepared to put this topic onto a backburner to allow other family relationships to normalise. If she could calm down then it might be possible to look at this as a 'ticking time bomb' that will explode at some point in the future but that you cannot defuse now.

Parents of SLD children seem to fall into two camps. Those who want to keep their children, even as adults, at home at all costs; and those who want to take control of progressing their children to a more independent adulthood. Your MIL, and a close friend of mine, fall into the first camp. We fall into the latter camp, our son is only 13 but we are already planning for him to move out 😉(we love him but his best life will be independent from aging parents).

Goldencarp · 10/10/2022 19:25

OnaBegonia · 13/08/2022 16:57

* It's great to say it's 'not for everyone' but my point is, in my opinion, mothers/siblings dont get to just opt out because its not for everyone.
It is not a siblings place to care and rear each other.
I'm afraid this is a martyrs attitude,
there are perfectly suitable supported living places available.
No child should grow up knowing they have this to face.

Exactly. The places we’ve seen are amazing. They do stuff that I just couldn’t do at home, swimming, the cinema, crazy golf, baking, arts and crafts. Every day there’s something in the places we have looked at. I Would be doing my son a real disservice keeping him at home with very little time out if the house as it’s too difficult with just me. He’d become isolated and very bored.

applestamper · 10/10/2022 19:20

If she's still throwing insults OP, I wouldn't spend anytime with her over Christmas Day or Boxing Day.

Overandunderit · 10/10/2022 19:18

Thanks for the update OP.

You might have to consider at what point you'd be prepared to go completely NC. MiL is being abusive. I'd not want to spend any time with her.

Goldencarp · 10/10/2022 19:14

Gazelda · 12/08/2022 20:22

Has anyone impartial ever asked Sam what he wants? Explained what his options are?

I 100% don't think that your DH should take on the responsibility, but Sam should be allowed an opinion as much as possible.

The op says he has severe autism and is non verbal. My son is also severely autistic and non verbal and doesn’t have that level of understanding so I’m assuming the op’s relative wouldn’t understand,

Goldencarp · 10/10/2022 19:10

Definitely not unreasonable. Our eldest adult son, is exactly the same. I do not want my other children to be his carer and sacrifice their own lives so we are looking now to get him settled into a residential setting whilst we are still around to ensure he’s happy and well cared for. We have 3 other children and all of them will always look out for him. We have deputyship and our eldest will become his deputy too. He enjoys respite and really seems to enjoy being around his peers and being active and busy so residential will be very beneficial for him too.

HTH1 · 10/10/2022 19:03

Wouldn’t it be kinder to MIL just not to go there? Without wanting to sound callous, the obligation would only kick in when MIL is dead and therefore can’t say anything to you, at which time you can come up with the best plan of action based on your circs at the time. It is literally impossible for her to force you to do anything once she’s gone.

Mojoj · 10/10/2022 18:50

saddenedsosaddened · 11/08/2022 22:13

To clarify, my sister is also violent (due to frustration with all she has to cope with) and needs 24/7 care for a variety of reasons.
It's great to say it's 'not for everyone' but my point is, in my opinion, mothers/siblings dont get to just opt out because its not for everyone. You step up, you exhaust yourself, you do what anyone would do for family you love. No one asked for this.
Rest assured, i'm no superwoman, I have little support and its bloody hard every second of every day but she's my sister, the alternative is NOT an option in my opinion.

That's wonderful that you are so willing to look after your sister. BUT you shouldn't assume that everyone should want to sacrifice their life equally. Also, many SEN adults flourish in other settings and have the opportunity to live as independently as they are able to and flourish.

Kite22 · 10/10/2022 18:43

Thanks for updating.
I'm sorry there isn't any movement from her, though it is good your dh is managing to be clear and firm in what he is saying.
Flowers for you both.

Original poster
rocky4321 · 10/10/2022 18:35

Hi All,

We're now three months later and MIL is still throwing insults and nothing has changed. DP is remaining strong and refusing to buckle (apart from becoming increasingly less patient with her) but there's no end insight. DP has asked her if she's thought about a plan yet (after he received another barrel of abuse from her regarding it) and nada (apart from she refuses to 'abandon him' or let Sam's family abandon him). He's offered to do the brunt work of looking at options but she's not accepting that plan 'A' isn't an option.

If she's not guilting/abusing DP over not taking on full responsibility of Sam, she's picking arguments on other things i.e. not spending the whole of Xmas day and Boxing day with her.

I didn't put in my OP that MIL is still married to FIL and they manage to care for Sam between them. I think the biggest issue will be if something happens to FIL that MIL will expect DP to pick up where FIL used to be. If something happens to MIL first FIL will be a lot more pragmatic. FIL has offered slight support to DP but doesn't seem to be supporting us to MIL (FIL always goes along with MIL for an easier life and is obviously still only with her for the sake of Sam).

MIL is tactfully trying to persuade me into caring for Sam but I keep deflecting back to DP. DP keeps apologising to me and reckon she just needs some more time. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg and we're dealing with a ticking time bomb.

OP posts:
Goldbar · 13/08/2022 19:41

How would it work with your children and if you had a baby, having Sam living full-time in the house?

The way I see it is that your first duty as a parent is to ensure that your children are safe and have a decent quality of life (just as your MIL views it as being her duty to look after Sam to the best of her ability).

I feel for your MIL and it's a desperately tough situation for her to be in. But if you can't both care for Sam and ensure that your own children are safe and prioritised (and it sounds like this would be very difficult), then your only real option is to continue being clear with your MIL that you and your DP couldn't make this work even with the best will in the world.

Wombat27A · 13/08/2022 19:01

I have a very ill sibling. There is not a chance I'd "take them on" full-time. They give a team of carers hell when very ill & have sent their main carer screwy. Not to mention the physical aspects of double incontinence, unstable MH & numerous physical co-morbidities.

No shirking, avoiding or saying my life will be interrupted. I've always come a poor 2nd to sibling's needs & I don't begrudge that but I do very much want to live the life I have & not get ground down with daily caring beyond my capacity, both physically & mentally. I just could not look after them.

I did work in a cafe where people with serious disabilities came in with their support workers. They looked happy, stimulated & cared for. That's what I would hope for my sibling.

CharlotteUnaNatalieThompson · 13/08/2022 18:57

@saddenedsosaddened what will happen to your sister if you die before she does? Do you expect your husband or children to care for her?

Like I said before you are doing a wonderful thing by your sister, and it sounds like that works for you and your family but that doesn't mean you can expect that everyone else should feel the same. Even if the reason is that they don't want to for what you are calling selfish reasons. We all only get one life. And can therefore choose how we want to live it. Placing your relative in a care home doesn't mean they have no love. You can visit them and spend time with them and give them care and love that might actually be better quality than if forced against your wishes to look after them 24/7

notreallynoo · 13/08/2022 18:48

I totally get it . My son has Sen and the thought of him going into a care facility would sicken me. But it's unreasonable to expect u guys to sacrifice your life and chance to have a family. That's not fair. And the discussion needs to be now so between you, you can choose sams future and maybe start introducing a respite to prepare him for the long term

saddenedsosaddened · 13/08/2022 18:35

@toomuchlaundry
So sorry for your loss and under such circumstances, that must have been a very difficult time. :(
I absolutely agree, as I said upthread, that care has it's place when the carer is suffering physically or mentally as a result of providing care. This is not the case here as OP is describing the negative impact Sam will have on her husbands career or plans for a baby.
I have given this a lot of thought today, questioning why I feel as I do and so strongly too (!).
I think I'm perhaps overly irked because I meet these people all the time in my circles; the poor put upon siblings explaining why I dont see their brother or sister around anymore; oh we couldn't possibly have him, we enjoy our free time, we have our own kids, we have careers that are more important - and I'm a genuinely non-confrontational person so I bite my lip and smile and nod when I just think they should be honest with themselves and admit they didn't want their lives interrupted. End of. I just cant respect that bullsh*t attitude but apologies for bring what are probably my own issues to the thread.

OnaBegonia · 13/08/2022 18:27

@saddenedsosaddened
You can't criticise those who don't want to provide care for a sibling, not everyone has the want or capacity to do it. I would never want that for any of mine.