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Original poster

To think there should be a point at which they trust my judgement?

257 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 13:23

Genuinely, asking this question. I'm a bit confused and not sure if I've really messed up. I don't want to drip feed but equally don't want an essay so I'll try to give the important information and happy to clarify if necessary.

Starting 5 years ago my 2 DC (15 & 10) have been under Children's services Child in Need. This happened as I had a mental breakdown. The case was closed about 6 months ago. Due to abuse in my childhood from my dad one of the stipulations was that they couldn't be alone with my parents. My parents live in a different country and due to Covid we've not seen them much over the past 2 years. My mum is keen to get to know her grandchildren better. We arranged that today my mum would pick up my DD from school (in her car with air con) and take her to the cinema (more air con.) I thought as the case had been closed and my mental health is much better (in terms of me being able to make a judgement) that this would be ok. But I've just found out Children's Services are opening their case again due to this. What do you think? I love my mum and want her to see her grandchildren, but maybe we should have planned for me to go along?

OP posts:
Sweatinglikeabitch · 19/07/2022 23:03

I really do think your judgement is off. You've said that your mum doesn't see it as abuse. That you don't feel able to tell her she can't see the kids alone. But that your dad would never lay a finger on your kids.

If they didn't see it as abuse, and still don't see it as abuse. Why would 1. Your dad never do it again, he doesn't see anything wrong with it. And 2. Your mum make damn sure her husband is no where near her grandkids? She doesn't think he did anything wrong. Plus, if you don't feel comfortable with that conversation with your mum, are you really going to to be able to stand up to your dad if he ever did lay a finger on your kids?

I think you're obviously struggling and its good you're trying to get counselling. But I think you need to see that because of your upbringing that you don't have very good judgement when it comes to your parents. It sounds like you're feeling alot of obligation to them. And I think you're underestimating the level of obligation your mum will feel to your dad too

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 22:39

StingrayStingray · 19/07/2022 22:21

Wait... Earlier you said that CN/SS said that your Mother couldn't have unsupervised access in case it lead to unsupervised access with your abusive Father, but now they are ok with it?

It's very simple, if your Father abused you he could easily abuse your DC.
If your Mother doesn't know your Father was abusive to you (or knows and doesn't see it as serious - it is! - or pretends it didn't happen) she could unwittingly provide your abusive Father access to your DC.

The only way to keep your DC safe is to not allow unsupervised access to her/them by your DM.

If you disclose the abuse to your Mother and she doesn't leave your DF then you know where you stand with her - she is an unsafe person who would minimise/cover up or otherwise enable an abuser and shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to your DC.

If my dad wants to see the DC he'll tell me. He's not usually bothered.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 22:36

StingrayStingray · 19/07/2022 22:21

Wait... Earlier you said that CN/SS said that your Mother couldn't have unsupervised access in case it lead to unsupervised access with your abusive Father, but now they are ok with it?

It's very simple, if your Father abused you he could easily abuse your DC.
If your Mother doesn't know your Father was abusive to you (or knows and doesn't see it as serious - it is! - or pretends it didn't happen) she could unwittingly provide your abusive Father access to your DC.

The only way to keep your DC safe is to not allow unsupervised access to her/them by your DM.

If you disclose the abuse to your Mother and she doesn't leave your DF then you know where you stand with her - she is an unsafe person who would minimise/cover up or otherwise enable an abuser and shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to your DC.

Please read my posts and you will see the duty SW phoned me and said it was ok for my mum to have contact unsupervised but not my dad. I also thought they were reopening as Child in need but after talking to pastoral care teacher at DD's school she thinks it will be Early Help.

OP posts:
StingrayStingray · 19/07/2022 22:21

Wait... Earlier you said that CN/SS said that your Mother couldn't have unsupervised access in case it lead to unsupervised access with your abusive Father, but now they are ok with it?

It's very simple, if your Father abused you he could easily abuse your DC.
If your Mother doesn't know your Father was abusive to you (or knows and doesn't see it as serious - it is! - or pretends it didn't happen) she could unwittingly provide your abusive Father access to your DC.

The only way to keep your DC safe is to not allow unsupervised access to her/them by your DM.

If you disclose the abuse to your Mother and she doesn't leave your DF then you know where you stand with her - she is an unsafe person who would minimise/cover up or otherwise enable an abuser and shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to your DC.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 22:14

Schuyler · 19/07/2022 22:03

Prior to my current role, I was a social worker in CS for many years.
The legal threshold for intervention is quite high so not meeting these requirements does not mean that’s what most of us would want as parents. There’s a difference between ‘good enough’ parenting and ‘good parenting’. You come across as though you have the capacity and drive to be a good parent.
Your minimising is evidence that your judgement continues to be influenced by the abuse you suffered in childhood. This isn’t a criticism, it’s an observation. Your views are impacted emotions and experience and I sincerely hope you do access the support you need. You’ve had negative experiences and emotions.
Please try to take a step back and perhaps you will objectively see that you are minimising the situation. I think you’d benefit from support in real life because I think MN will make you dig your heels in more if you feel attacked and that’s not helpful.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. I agree with what you say. The problem is I would access the support I need if the support I need were available. I am very committed to engaging and trying to improve. I did DBT for a year as an inpatient in order to be able to do Schema therapy in the community to deal with my childhood. I had to wait 2 years and was then offered 4 months of therapy. I'm still trying my best with that but it is clearly not going to deal with anything from childhood. If I could access what my hospital psychologist said I need I'd put everything in to it. As I have said I may well be minimising things but that is just honestly how I feel even though it might not be right. You are right I feel attacked and that hurts me a lot. My DC are the most important thing to me. I would genuinely not do anything if I thought it would put them in harm's way. The problem is support is not always available in real life and while you always get lots of unhelpful replies on here, I always find there are some really insightful helpful posts which is why I post here.

OP posts:
Schuyler · 19/07/2022 22:03

Prior to my current role, I was a social worker in CS for many years.
The legal threshold for intervention is quite high so not meeting these requirements does not mean that’s what most of us would want as parents. There’s a difference between ‘good enough’ parenting and ‘good parenting’. You come across as though you have the capacity and drive to be a good parent.
Your minimising is evidence that your judgement continues to be influenced by the abuse you suffered in childhood. This isn’t a criticism, it’s an observation. Your views are impacted emotions and experience and I sincerely hope you do access the support you need. You’ve had negative experiences and emotions.
Please try to take a step back and perhaps you will objectively see that you are minimising the situation. I think you’d benefit from support in real life because I think MN will make you dig your heels in more if you feel attacked and that’s not helpful.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 22:00

Clymene · 19/07/2022 21:50

In this instance, it was fine but I think it's the refusal to accept that your mum was an accessory to the abuse which is giving people pause. And the fact that you hasn't considered anything like 'what if your dad had arranged to meet your mum at the cinema?'

The best thing to do is. It to let your mum see your children alone. It protects them anc it protects you.

The thing is, I can only write what I honestly have experienced and feel. I may be in denial, I have agreed with this. I have a huge psychological block around this which I have explained many times. I can't physically force myself to start seeing things in a certain way if my brain won't do it. I've been asking for help with this for years. I mean I could just lie. Except my autism doesn't let me!

I've not said 'this time it was fine', what I've said is the Social Worker said my judgement was good. That's got to count for something, surely? And I'm being again completely honest that I don't understand why my dad would meet my mum at the cinema. Firstly, he was no where near and my mum had the car. Secondly, the last thing he would want to do is watch a kids film. He doesn't have a particular interest in the children. He tolerates seeing them occasionally. So why would he make this big plan to take advantage of my mum taking DD to the cinema? To do what? Hit her and then never see us again? It makes no sense to me, genuinely.

OP posts:
Clymene · 19/07/2022 21:50

In this instance, it was fine but I think it's the refusal to accept that your mum was an accessory to the abuse which is giving people pause. And the fact that you hasn't considered anything like 'what if your dad had arranged to meet your mum at the cinema?'

The best thing to do is. It to let your mum see your children alone. It protects them anc it protects you.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:44

FayeGovan · 19/07/2022 21:32

CS will trust your judgement when you start facing up to the truth and protect your children, not your parents.

What have I done to protect my parents? Gone low contact, followed advice from SWs, never let my dad alone with them. I get some people think that isn't enough (Children's services don't agree with them) but it's hardly protecting my parents?

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:41

FayeGovan · 19/07/2022 21:32

CS will trust your judgement when you start facing up to the truth and protect your children, not your parents.

Well, except they already do. They said my judgement was correct.

OP posts:
FayeGovan · 19/07/2022 21:32

CS will trust your judgement when you start facing up to the truth and protect your children, not your parents.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:28

Stompythedinosaur · 19/07/2022 21:25

Your dm was not able to keep you safe from abuse, so it makes sense to be concerned about her ability to keep your little one safe from abuse.

Yes, I know. But CS do deem it safe. I have been told to listen to the SWs. I have. But to be on the cautious side I went along with DM and DD.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:25

viques · 19/07/2022 21:17

Just because you once crossed the road without looking and didn’t get run over doesn’t mean that it is safe to cross the road without looking. And the same applies here, one uneventful outing does not guarantee that your children will always be safe. For all you know your mum has been told by your abuser to play a waiting game to persuade you that the children will be safe, seems to be working too. It’s called grooming.

Show quote history

I'm sorry, but you're really not getting it. Children's Services have said my call was correct. Nothing to do with an uneventful outing. You are making up a story that has nothing to do with reality. This was not a plan concocted by my dad! He had nothing to do with it. I mean honestly, why did he not do anything in the past when he could get away with it as CS were not involved. Why all of a sudden now he wants to get my DC alone so he can hit them and then never see them again??

OP posts:
Stompythedinosaur · 19/07/2022 21:25

Your dm was not able to keep you safe from abuse, so it makes sense to be concerned about her ability to keep your little one safe from abuse.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:20

Johnnysgirl · 19/07/2022 21:12

Why on earth did you start this thread? Confused. You've been snarky and arsey and so convinced you are right, it's hard to see what your motivation is.

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To ask should there be a point CS trust my judgement? I have had lots of lovely posters give me help and advice and be kind. Others like to just put the boot in. Unfortunately, it's always the way. As it is it seems I did make the right judgement as decided by the professionals who know our case. But posters who have been telling me I should listen to the SWs all of a sudden change their mind when it turns out their appraisal of the situation was wrong. Surely it's a good thing that actually I can make a good call.

OP posts:
viques · 19/07/2022 21:17

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:42

Well, I actually haven't and it turns out it is ok for them to be alone with DM anyway.

Show quote history

Just because you once crossed the road without looking and didn’t get run over doesn’t mean that it is safe to cross the road without looking. And the same applies here, one uneventful outing does not guarantee that your children will always be safe. For all you know your mum has been told by your abuser to play a waiting game to persuade you that the children will be safe, seems to be working too. It’s called grooming.

Johnnysgirl · 19/07/2022 21:12

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:10

Oh, so those people know better than the social worker who knows our case? Cos from what I read I should do what the social worker said? Which is it?

Show quote history

Why on earth did you start this thread? Confused. You've been snarky and arsey and so convinced you are right, it's hard to see what your motivation is.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:11

luxxlisbon · 19/07/2022 21:06

I genuinely can’t believe how lightly you are taking this. I’m really not trying to rub it in but it is totally understandable why people are concerned about your decision making.

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But is it when Children's services have said my judgement was correct?

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:10

Festoonlights · 19/07/2022 21:03

Nope. Everyone on here has told you to keep your dc away from your dp. I hope you get the help you need

Oh, so those people know better than the social worker who knows our case? Cos from what I read I should do what the social worker said? Which is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:09

Johnnysgirl · 19/07/2022 21:01

I suspect you're being deliberately obtuse. Which is probably better than the alternative, but not by much.
🤷🏻‍♀️

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Nope, I'm autistic. I don't play the kind of games NT people did. Why can't we be happy? We went out and had a nice time. CS confirmed it was all ok and my judgement was correct. Why can't I be happy about that?

OP posts:
luxxlisbon · 19/07/2022 21:06

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:41

DD had a lovely time with her granny today.

I genuinely can’t believe how lightly you are taking this. I’m really not trying to rub it in but it is totally understandable why people are concerned about your decision making.

Festoonlights · 19/07/2022 21:03

Nope. Everyone on here has told you to keep your dc away from your dp. I hope you get the help you need

Johnnysgirl · 19/07/2022 21:01

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:51

Why slow clap? Isn't my DD worthy of having a nice time because she's been under Children's Services in the past? Some posters are so mean and don't seem to realise this is our real life. It's been really hard for all sorts of reasons over the last few years. I'm happy that we all had a nice time.

Show quote history

I suspect you're being deliberately obtuse. Which is probably better than the alternative, but not by much.
🤷🏻‍♀️

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 21:00

Festoonlights · 19/07/2022 20:55

Your dd would have a better time if her mother protected her from identified abusers, but you keep going op. I think you have had the general response/consensus on here - just ignore it and carry on.

Yes, I have. The general consensus was I should go too which I did. So hardly ignoring. Since then the duty SW phoned and said it was fine for DD to be alone with my mum so would have been ok anyway. My mum is not an abuser. If she was why are CS happy for her to be alone with my DC? Don't make silly comments if you haven't read the thread.

OP posts:
Festoonlights · 19/07/2022 20:55

Your dd would have a better time if her mother protected her from identified abusers, but you keep going op. I think you have had the general response/consensus on here - just ignore it and carry on.