I was really rude and possibly discriminatory to my boss. What should I do?

Don't say anything but be prepared to hand in your notice if it does go further

You shouldn't have brought his sexuality into it as it's irrelevant anyway.

I keep seeing this. It's nonsense. As a gay man he never has to face the risk of getting his partner pregnant, which is something many straight men do have to consider and face the consequences of. The fact that he's gay is relevant. He doesn't even have to think about contraception, let alone pregnancy. He's holding a strong ideological opinion about something he has absolutely no experience of. Good for you, OP. Have some

I'd say well done for standing up to such bullshit. I'd be surprised if anything came of it so I wouldn't worry. If it were my company promote you 🙂

I don't think his sexuality is relevant, only his sex. He can never be pregnant so it's not his decision, but that's the same as any man. It can still be upsetting to lose a potential sibling or niece or nephew to abortion, doesn't have to be a son or daughter (I support a woman's right to choose, it's not a decision for family to make, but it can still affect family).

There's a lot of ignorance on this thread about gay parents and I don't think the concern is unwarranted at all.

Just the opposite sadly.

what you said was discriminatory imo - gay men are entitled to an opinion about abortion same as anyone else. It’s not just an issue of womens’ bodies either. It’s a moral and ethical issue.

Im pro choice (female) and believe women should be able to choose to abort up till birth. However, I don’t deny anyone the right to an opinion on this or anything else on the grounds of their sexuality or sex.

It doesn’t sound like he’s the type to do anything but I would tread carefully and not disparage or discount others views on the basis of protected characteristics.

Christ the ignorance is never going to go away on this thread while women assume the only reason for abortion is because the woman got pregnant by accident 🙄

Context is everything. I presume gay men don't randomly have unprotected sex with women, unless I have misunderstood what it means to a homosexual male, and I did not want to exclude the possibility that a gay man MIGHT consider that having sex with a woman could be the most straight forward way for him to have children. So a child between a gay man and a woman may well have been planned but an accidental pregnancy is highly unlikely.

I'm fully aware of the many reason why a woman may need or want to terminate a pregnancy so your concern for my ignorance is unwarranted.

I think it does though. The way OP phrased it was unfortunate- “absolutely no bearing” wasn’t strictly accurate. But it was in the heat of the moment/ provoked, and Given it would be a highly exceptional circumstance for a gay man to be intimately/ personally affected, I think it was reasonable .

You didn't discriminate - you called a gay man gay. That's not discrimination. He won't report you as he antagonised the situation and if he does report it (he won't) you can make a statement of your own and HR will have to sort. No discrimination occurred from either of you, just two opposing opinions

I can't see anything inaccurate in your comments. As a gay man he will neither get pregnant or get someone pregnant by accident so the ruling will not impact him.

Christ the ignorance is never going to go away on this thread while women assume the only reason for abortion is because the woman got pregnant by accident 🙄

@HeadOnShoulders

“Usually the arguments for abortion are that the fetus is just part of the woman and isn't yet considered a human being, and as such it's her choice. And the argument against is that a fetus is a human being, albeit in early stages of development, and therefore shouldn't be killed.

Neither side has a knockout argument.”

how is the former not a knockout argument.

a foetus is a foetus. It’s not a human being. The woman can do what she wants to this cluster of cells that are in her body. Cos it’s her body. And she can do what she wants with her body. It really is that simple. No one can argue against that no matter how much you hate women no one has a leg to stand on against that.

I wouldn’t apologize for that. Even in a workplace where political discussions are on the table, he was out of line.

abortion is an issue with a hierarchy of opinion and his voice belongs at the bottom. It’s no different than the fact that as a white, heterosexual woman, on issues of gay or minority rights I can have an opinion and be an advocate, but I also need to listen more than I speak.

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

I can't see anything inaccurate in your comments. As a gay man he will neither get pregnant or get someone pregnant by accident so the ruling will not impact him. The ruling will impact millions of women. Lack of funds to travel means it will affect poor and vulnerable women more. You hold the opinion that men should not have a say over women's bodily autonomy, it's a view shared by many women.

You have referenced his sexuality and sex in two different contexts, one a statement of fact (sexuality) and the other an opinion (sex).

I would not apologise. If he didn't want pushback then he should not have raised it. If you had made the comments without him starting the conversation it would be different. He did not feel the need to demonstrate any sensitivity to you, the only woman in attendance.

I wouldn’t be apologising in your position op.

I do however, think you are wrong. His opinion on women’s bodies is invalid because he is male, his sexuality is irrelevant.

What if a surrogate gets pregnant and the child has a severe medical condition discovered in the womb? She wants to terminate but he does not?

It sounds like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to me. No need to apologise.

All you did was show how weak your position is if you had to resort to becoming personal.

You mean OP couldn’t be coolly objective because it could, or maybe has affected her, so she became emotional. whereas he could be objective because it’s hypothetical in his case.

As an aside I work in a fairly robust male dominated organisation. I’ve had plenty of “old school” bosses who engaged in quite heated rows with colleagues ( the swearing and finger pointing variety) who wake up the next day and move on with things. Blokes can be very direct in their communication and don’t necessarily dwell on the minutiae of every communication. I don’t know the guy but if I otherwise got on well with him I’d raise it with him next time I was alone with him. ( not to apologise but to say “I’m never going to agree with you on this issue)

They absolutely can and do become fathers, but I do think it is much less likely that they will be personally / intimately affected by abortion laws.

But again, 'much less likely' doesn't make what the OP said any less discriminatory.

I think in todays climate- where we are meant to be on guard to adhere to HR speak- I think you were both in the "wrong". I'm weary of this heavy-handed HR culture personally, but it is what it is. As I do not think it encourages genuine inclusion and diversity and does not do anything to stop actual bullying (route of most discrimination) in the work place. Which is the reason allot of the original legislation was put in.

And may be called up for it- depending on the culture of your organisation.
I'll be surprised if you were sacked over it.

What I would do, is let it blow over. He may not report it. Learn to be more mindful and careful next time

Write to yourself, (an email?) exactly what happened, date time so you are clear just in case he did say something reported on you.

Do not go to HR first, unless you're sure he'll report you.

Do not apologise, just be nice to him, talk about something else...so he knows that you're still on good terms.

And certainly do not put anything as an apology in email, writing sent to him.

If he does report you, just be honest- that you were emotionally hurt by the argument, for personal reasons, and you spoke , without thinking. As you felt the argument was sexist towards being a women, and you felt uncomfortable about being the only woman in a group of men holding objectionable views on hard won birth control rights that you've been personally affected by.
At the precise moment you didn't think what you said was discriminatory in the context of the conversation.
But in hindsight realised it could be seen in that way, and apologise for any hurt feelings to your boss.
You would like to move on, you've learnt your lesson and will not get in impassioned debates at work.

Can anyone in HR advise?

It's women who get pregnant, so it's not a human issue, it's a women's issue.

Then try to give a winning argument using logic (rather than dogma) and without resorting to personal attacks.

Usually the arguments for abortion are that the fetus is just part of the woman and isn't yet considered a human being, and as such it's her choice. And the argument against is that a fetus is a human being, albeit in early stages of development, and therefore shouldn't be killed.

Neither side has a knockout argument.

You were quite right, a woman's fertility is not the business of any man.

I only voted yabu because of bringing his sexuality into the argument, but otherwise it was bad form on him to be publicising his views, especially as in his position as a manager he could have to deal with such personal topics with employees.

Is he openly gay? Would he describe himself as such?

If so, you’ve just had a frank exchange of political views on a topical issue. No more, no less than that. You haven’t been either rude or discriminatory as far as I can see.