Finger in bum

I wouldn't expect a finger in my arse on the first shag unless I guided his hand there to do that. Wouldn't mind it in a relationship once they know I'm into it, but no one should assume.

As your mum said last night…

Oh fuck!

I read the OP completely differently to you, I read it that she seems taken aback by men just going for it e.g.:

is it just me or are men becoming increasingly blatant with these porn type moves when you have only just met?

AIBU to feel men should stop pulling these weird moves during a fling.

And I agree with her. Until men are taking their time to judge your reactions and make sure that you are comfortable with each stage then they certainly shouldn't be shoving their fingers anywhere, regardless of whether men think women want or do these things.

Consulted my mum and she doesn’t want a finger up her either.

Wtf?

I think the difference is that a vagina is biologically ‘meant’ for sex (poor phrasing, I know), but the anus isn't.

Then again, I’m surprised that anal play is now mainstream.

Blimey what a lot of assumptions on this thread

has sex on first date - slut who obviously is asking for things and risking pregnancy and STI's (erm condoms! also I've has plenty of ONS's never got PG or caught siphylaids thank you ms judgypants)

Flip side - women who don't want a finger up the mum apparently want missionary sex (with wine??) which is boring

also men need to ask to put anything up anywhere before doing so - surely that's not hard to understand?

And I think even the ducks in the park are aware that the vagina and the anus are two different orifices. Ideally I like the men I sleep with to have that awareness too, both for consent purposes and also, y’know, basic skills. A man who thinks “it’s all just fingering down there at the end of the day, innit” doesn’t seem like someone who’d be able to identify a clitoris in a line-up.

@pixie5121 To you it's no big deal, to others it is.
Just because others do it, assumption shouldn't be made that everyone does it.
Which this bloke did.
Enjoy your ducking conversation in the park though, which isn't my cup of tea, but whatever floats your boat.

Yes, that crosses a line. Forcefully shoving anything anywhere is obviously not OK. A forceful kiss on the lips isn't OK. But that's not what she was asking. She seems taken aback that he thinks this is a thing most women want/do.

Plus what the hell happened to men asking if you liked stuff, and watching for your reactions instead of having sex by numbers and ticking things 'women like' off a list

A bloke looking into your eyes asking you if you like something is way sexier than him just shoving his finger up your arse without so much as a glance

I happen to think all the things you've mentioned from kissing, oral, touching to piv and anal need explicit consent, although I would agree that they don't need to be verbal, a nod, moving your head towards them to meet a kiss etc is fine.

But in this case it doesn't sound like he drifted his finger towards her anus then paused for a second to give her chance to nod or move away or shake her head, instead he just went right ahead and shoved it in, not giving her the opportunity to consent, verbally or otherwise. That's where it crosses the line.

Fucking hell...I think I'd get more intelligent conversation and rational thought from ducks at the pond in the park.

I've already made it clear that no, there's no 'green light' for anyone to do as they wish. I've said I don't understand why this one act requires a different level of consent from all the other stuff they did.

To me, a finger up the bum isn't shocking, weird or perverted. Plenty of women do this, as the guy noted. He might well think it's along the same lines as fingering (vag) - I certainly do.

He should have asked instead of just poking it up there.

I think it's unreasonable he didn't ask first before putting a finger up there!
i love a bit of anal myself and happy to do it as long as he's not big!

I'm not saying it doesn't warrant consent.

I'm asking why it requires EXPLICIT VERBAL CONSENT when nothing else does.

You seem to think there's some obvious, arbitrary line between what's 'normal' and what isn't.

Why?

If you're shagging a bloke on the first date then they probably think they can get away with slightly more boundary pushing stuff, especially if they know you're never going to see each other again. They will have less respect for you than someone they're in a long term relationship with, and be less concerned about pissing you off.

@pixie5121 so by your reckoning, the fact that a woman sleeps with someone on the first meeting, gives that someone the green light to do as they wish to her?
Should she give him a blowie, even if she hates it, because she's only just met him?
Be slapped, choked, bitten, hung upside down by her ankles, pissed on? Just because she has sex on first meeting?
It's not common, people think it's common because it happens in porn, therefore everyone must be doing it or enjoying it.
Probably the same people who think coronation Street despicts real life.

Your assumption is not only unreasonable, it’s completely and utterly wrong. This has actually been hugely helpful as it explains a lot about why men continue to be so rapey. Clearly we need to sit the lot of them down and explain that consenting to one act categorically does not equal consenting to everything that they might want to do.

Is it really so difficult to understand that sticking something in a different orifice warrants consent?

Except that's not what I said and you're attacking a strawman. Seems to be a favourite thing to do on Mumsnet.

I said a man would be fairly reasonable to assume that a woman happy to have sex with a stranger might also be happy to try some stuff that isn't missionary sex. This is the question she is asking - is he unreasonable to do this stuff with a casual partner/fling? The answer is IMO, no.

She has already made it clear it wasn't forceful...she seems to think he's a porn-addicted twisted pervert for 'going there' at all. Presumably she didn't mind him touching her vag without asking because in her eyes that's 'normal'.

An adult can do whatever they like, including have sex with a random. I don’t see any criticism of the man in this situation. But choosing to have sex with the random doesn’t mean that the random can then please himself about the entire encounter. That’s not how it works in a consensual encounter.

And It’s hardly mental to expect someone to ask before sticking a finger up your arse. I have sex with my husband often and I wouldn’t be impressed if he did that out of the blue. It’s somewhat disturbing that you think he should be able to do whatever he likes just because I’ve chosen to have sex with him and he thinks I might enjoy it.

So do you think OP expected to give explicit verbal consent for:

Kissing
Oral
Touching?

If not, why not?

I have never had anyone explicitly ask if they're allowed to do something. It's always, always just moving to do the thing, and I either let it happen or make it clear I don't want it, and vice versa.

I'm pretty sure this is how most people operate.

Misandry, sluts...this is all starting to sound familiar.