Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

Why is your child’s attendance so low?
is there an issue with the school they were at?
When children are excluded they normally go to a PRU, managed moves are usually pre permanent exclusion.
The LEA should help you, but they will have a list of student to send to schools, most schools will try and fill with normal start of year admissions rather that take in year admissions student who have been excluded.

She’s probably going to have to bottom out to find her motivation and it might actually be easier for you to beat if you’re not too closely involved, since that’s what she says she wants anyway. The drama of playing you off against her dad is also probably quite addictive, so if you step away, that’s another distraction off the table.

There is hope, especially since she’s bright.

This is very hard for you with your daughter in crisis.
I've read the thread but am unclear whether she has actually been excluded and you've had the appropriate letter/hearing etc. or whether the school is taking about possibly doing so. Even is she's living with your ex I assume you are a priority contact for all school communications?

I think for the moment you need to step back and regain tyour strength. She has blocked you, and her dad seems to think he is going to make another school take her, so let him find out the truth. He (and she by default) has cast you as the problem and the idiot who knows nothing, so dont waste your breath telling him anything - let him take the flack for once, let him do the parenting.

This sounds like my DD - although she wasnt violent and, thank god, never left to live with her father. But her school refusal in year 7 and 8, and subsequent referral to a small unit (not a PRU but similar) where she locked herself in the toilets and threw herself down stairs to avoid it, led to a diagnosis of ASD and PDA (at the Elizabeth Newson Centre, by Phil Christie who pretty much was the expert back then)

This led to the rest of the family being diagnosed. I have ASD/ADHD and PDA.

I found alot of support via FB groups for teens with PDA. Im not saying its a definate, but with your own diagnosis and the hereditary element.

with us, DD was home schooled. or rather unschooled. She was a little younger and then she had time to settle, but never went back to secondary - she took GCSEs as adult evening classes, then later a couple more at a local FE college, then progressed through college where the attitudes were different. Her anxieties were coming from the school environment - it doesnt sound as if your daughter's are coming from there - it sounds as if they are coming from living with her father. PDA and BPD look very similar. They can cross over. One can become another if not addressed, and each can impact on each other. The initial driving force can be the anxiety driven by the autism, but the trauma of abuse will feed into this and amplify it. risk taking, sex, explosive behaviour, acting out and manipulating as well as they are able, along with lies and rewriting the truth. All these can be present. As well as violence and agression, especially if told no.

It may be that you need to step back. Right back. Its bloody hard, because you love them, and ultimately however awful and destructive the behaviour, it most likely is coming from a place of fear and hurt. But often, as mum, you are the easist to lash out at, and the easiest to dismiss - she needs professional help to untangle this, and with luck the PRU will make this happen. If you are not there to try to fix it and pick up the pieces then she, her father, and the professionals will have to. Hard as it is, You need to be firm in your love (when she inevitably comes back) but also firm in bouncing the solution back to her and dad.

It seems as if excuses are being made for your daughter by her father, and that the daughter is very adept at manipulation, and throwing strops {With added violence} to get her own way.
Sadly this can only end badly unless the daughter herself wants to change.

At a school there was a ''Troubled'' child, who used flouncing and aggression in equal measure, and surprise surprise, the woman she had grown into was in the local papers for incidents I won't go into in case it is identifying.

Still hadn't changed the stinking attitude.

Bullying by this child as a teenager involved police. It involves police as an adult.

My sympathy lies entirely with the victims of these teenagers, These manipulative flouncy madams like to play the ''Victim'' themselves when it suits, will cry and be all contrite, but they bounce back to show their true colours.

Maybe there are inherited character traits from the parent/s , but these teenagers cause so much disruption and misery in their wake, that one can hardly blame the school and other pupils for being mightily relieved when the ''Problem'' has been excluded. Being a truant and disruptive is one thing.

Using threats and violence and bullying is entirely another.

There are also many children from fractured homes whose parents go on to have other children.. but they don't turn into violent bullies.

Discipline and boundaries really help long before a child gets to teenage years.

This teenager will be an adult soon, no one will want to employ her, or teach her unless she changes her attitude.

I'm another one who can't believe she ''Loves school'' so much to miss large chunks of it.

I hope for her future victim's sakes that she wakes up and takes responsibility for her actions.

Bullying with violence is absolutely shameful.

aww, OP, im so sorry youre going through this. Sending you lots of patience and strength.
At this point, I think you should step back. You cannot actually do anything right now. I think once your ex realises all the admin and fighting he will need to do on her behalf, he will be wishing it was you doing it, and if both of them dont get the reaction from you, then it will lose its power for them.
You cant organise a school for her, because the LEA need to organise her education, and if he refuses to engage with that, then he will need to prove he is educating her adequately at home.
Ultimately, if she doesnt get her exams now, then she will just have to take the scenic route to getting her qualifications, or get a job/apprenticeship at 16 and get her maths and english then. You dont have to rush it. There is nothing to say she needs to get them all at the normal time, and lots of people are dickheads at this age and hate school and their parents and everything, but they do grow up and live normal lives too. Lots of kids are much happier earning money than being at school and college.

Before they make the decision to permanently exclude her, could you discuss with pastoral/slt the possibility of alternative provision for her?

I worked with a child who was permanently excluded around 6 months ago and as he was still on the schools register, they had a duty of care to find him a new provision. The child’s behaviour and attendance was abysmal and a few schools turned them down and have only this week been offered a place at school. The belief that she will just walk into a new school will be shattered very soon…….

Hi op it sounds like because you and her father are singing off totally different hymm sheets your daughter is very aware of this and she sounds like she is using this to manipulate situations and whilst her father is pandering to her the situation is not going to get any better. When she comes with her hand out or slagging her father off I would be telling her she's made her choice now deal with it because it truly does sound like she's playing you both off against one another and long term that is not good. Let the father and daughter crack on tell them your not having a part in it now, if you write a list of rules and stuck by them you may start getting somewhere with her.

I 2nd this. If she wants to buckle down and achieve something, she can do well in a PRU. Ours is great.

It's absolutely right what everyone says that to change she has to want to change.

It maybe that she cannot engage currently in camhs. But eventually she may see it's a need.

It may be that currently she thinks life will sort itself out however she behaves - but eventually she'll realise her behaviour will impact her life choices as it'll affect peoples view of her and her options.

Whatever the route cause of her behaviour she won't be able to change it until she realises it's necessary.

I really respect that you are supporting her victim and their family and acknowledging your dds behaviour and it's impact on others.

I think you've made the right but sad realisation that with regards helping your dd change it just can't be done whilst her father is heavily involved. You've tried to protect her from his influence but haven't had support.

And PRUs aren't what people think.

Most have different branches. There will be the classes/ branches for those with behavioural problems and she may end up in that. But there's also branches for pupils who are too anxious for school, cannot engage in large classes and also students with medical needs. They will assess her needs continuously and if she's out into the class for pupils with behavioural challenges but they notice the route cause is anxiety or similar they'll work with her and move her.

Forget education right now - that's a marathon not a sprint.

Her behaviour and understanding of that and it's 8yo acts on her victims and also her life chances has to be the priority right now and that's what they'll focus on within the PRU.

I think she's gone too far and has shown too much lack of engagement to believe a simple change of school will be enough to activate something internally in her to make her want to face her behaviour, the route cause and change.

OP, you're not going to be able to do anything for her while her dad is in her ear convincing her that it will be fine and she's amazing. It will be hard to cut her loose but you have to. Your home should have strong boundaries for the protection of your other children who she has actively harmed in the past. You have to let her fail with her dad as soon as possible. Hopefully she is young enough to come back from it and recover a career/life/future.

PRU's are locked because if they're not the kids run off every five minutes and it makes it impossible to get anything done. It is also a nuisance to locals if the kids are constantly running about or smoking in the street.

In my experience, these kids are unruly, refuse to do as they're told, have no respect for others, are usually violent and like to bully others. Sound familiar?

You may think your DD doesn't belong there, but her behaviour says different. Also, if you really think your DD may suffer from eg ADHD, she's likely to get the testing she needs in a PRU or Alt-prov setting.

A child who makes it to permanent exclusion has had countless opportunities to make improvements and turn things around. I understand that your focus is on her having a place but you have to also consider the relief that the pupils, and their parents, she bullied or assaulted must be feeling.

In time she'll realise that things are serious. I really hope that's sooner rather than later, for both of your sakes BUT remember she can always go to college to retake her GCSE's and that there a lot of people who go to uni as a mature student. Hopefully, in time, she'll achieve all of those things, if she wants to.

I can imagine it's heartbreaking as you remember her as your baby girl, and all the years when she was sweet and you can see all these great academic abilities in her.

The most loving thing would be to step back now and hope for a PDU to shock her into a bit into the concept that actions have consequences, and have her face reality. You have more than enough on your plate already. She's almost an adult and the world will soon treat her as one, so she needs to start taking responsibility e.g., getting an ADHD assessment and treatment for it if she has it. Having a friend who encourages this behaviour sucks but we are all ultimately responsible for our actions and being led astray is sadly not going to be a defense in the eyes of the world anymore.

The blunt reality is that she's so lucky to have had a mother advocating for her to get tested, recognising that she may have ADD/ADHD, etc. A lot of people never get that far. You've been great and the right thing IMO is to step back and just hope for a PdU. If she doesn't engage, she has to face the consequences of what no school, no quals, no respect, and no dialling back of criminal behaviour looks like.

Always Play her at her own game and take her at her word. Get out of her life; and therefore her out of yours, and concentrate on you and your other children. Yes, she's your daughter, and you love her, but she needs now to fall flat on her face and deal with consequences before everything can start to be mended.

I know it goes against the grain as a Mum, but very tough love is sometimes necessary, as is protecting you and her siblings.

She can behave beautifully.When it serves her purpose.

There’s a hint. She’s manipulative and plays you/her father like a fiddle.

With all respect OP. I know you love your DD but you also know her behaviour is not on. There’s nothing wrong with the ground rules you have.

Leave your DD and her father to come up with a solution because at the moment both of them are having the cake and eating it at your and your other DD expense.

It’s hard to step back but you’re not doing ANYBODY (including yourself) any favour getting involved/dropped all the time.

Hope you’re out with your other DD and enjoying the day with your phone switched off.

This. Most schools won't want someone with attendance is the 60s. Couple that with a tarnished behaviour record and she is screwed.

I have not had a go at anyone.

Hmm well you've told the OP she's focusing on the wrong things (when she wanted this thread, unlike her others, to be about likely next steps school-wise), and that she's not bothered about her daughter's victims, you've criticised her for taking too long to describe the behaviour (all detailed in the other threads she directed posters to in the OP), implied she doesn't care about the victims and that she's minimising the effect on them.

Apart from that, no you haven't had a go at the OP at all.

I think you will find I didn’t comment on the reasons for behaviour, did I? I commented on the fact OP thinks it a choice her DD isn’t engaging with support.

None of us know OP’s DD well enough to comment for certain on the whys, which is why it is important OP’s DD receives to assessments and support she clearly desperately needs. But since you mention it, some of the behaviour may in part relate to potential additional needs. OP mentions her need for control and ASD assessment so PDA is a possibility which stems from anxiety. It could also relate to trauma or many other things, no one here can say.

I know of someone who was excluded and sent to a Pupil Referral Unit. It been wonderful for him as he’s very bright and had a lot of individual support with GCSE revision. This sort of support would t have been available to him in his school.

Where does the obnoxious behaviour and violence come in?

OP I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear this has happened. What did the school do to support her ?

Is she living with her dad at the moment

She won't engage

I posted this on your other thread, but it’s important so I’ll post it again here. It is far more likely DD can’t engage rather than won’t, so she needs support and provision to help her get to a place where she can engage better.