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Original poster

Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

635 replies

Alwaystoblame · 27/05/2022 14:10

Posting for traffic.
How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes.
I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

OP posts:
Jedsnewstar · 09/09/2022 14:09

Let her live with her dad and let him deal with it all.

oakleaffy · 09/09/2022 12:51

rainbowmilk · 08/09/2022 22:44

I hope that the victims of her violent behaviour are also receiving support for what they went through, especially given that she’s now coming back to their school - but having been in the education system I highly doubt it.

Violence is completely unacceptable, anywhere.
I do agree, It’s the innocent pupils who are hurt psychologically and physically by these violent ones that deserve protection.

justasking111 · 09/09/2022 12:40

Sorry I forgot hospitality there's a few who went on to be chefs

justasking111 · 09/09/2022 12:38

All my sons had friends who thrived in our local college after awful behaviour. One is a gardener, one an electrician, one a gas engineer, one a plasterer. The girls, they went into beauty as in hair, nails, etc my sons partner is now good friends with her beautician who was the worst bully at school.

I'm so glad we have a local college that teach vocational courses

LolaLouise · 09/09/2022 12:27

@Alwaystoblame My now 20 year old son was very similar in highschool, multiple aggressive incidents in school, bullying incidents, suspensions, threatened with perm exclusion, high abscenes and potential PRU referral. He wouldn't engage with CAHMs or any MH services even after a hospital admission and the Mh team came to him and spoke at length about his MH and what can be offered moving forward he refused to engage. His behaviour at home was as bad with his siblings, he wouldn't be aggressive but he was abusive, he would steal off me and my other children, smash up my house when he didn't get his own way etc. He was however diagnosed ASD, but mainstream schooling. I was at my wits end, and for the safety of my other children considered placing him in foster care at 15.

I have little advice on the schooling, but I will say, he's now 20, he has a good job within the NHS, he has a steady relationship, he functions well. School was not an environment suitable to his needs, but his time at college passed without incident, his attendance was good and he passed his courses with decent grades. I know previously you have said that you feel she needs the structure and support of school, but this may not be the case, the freedom and adultness of college can sometimes be the positive structure that's needed to make improvements.

I hope you are ok, I understand how hard this situation is, but there can be light at the end of the tunnel x

Minfilia · 09/09/2022 12:14

I’ve read this all the way through and I just think… what a shame she won’t engage with MH professionals. She really needs it as she is clearly a very messed up little girl who is probably scared and acting out.

My DD16 is under CAMHS and since having weekly therapy her school attendance has improved dramatically. She also hasn’t missed any lessons since school went back 10 days ago which is a big thing for us, even at her “best” she was still skipping the odd lesson she didn’t want to go to.

I totally get the frustration of seeing a disengaged child who was previously bright, academic and engaged (although my DD hasn’t shown any violence, just passiveness).

She really, really needs that therapy. But you can’t force her and im not sure what has to happen for her to wake up.

Mariposista · 09/09/2022 11:40

Would a residential youth rehabilitation programme be an option? Almost like youth detention centre but she would be entering voluntarily. She needs intense therapy and behavior management to be able to function in the community, or sadly if she keeps going it may be real prison one day…
so sorry OP, you sound desperate.

Dillydollydingdong · 09/09/2022 11:24

Maybe boarding school? There are some subsidized/funded ones around. Otherwise it looks like you'll have to homeschool her.

Johnnysgirl · 09/09/2022 10:55

Alwaystoblame · 08/09/2022 22:39

School said she didn't fit the criteria for a PRU. I thought that would be ideal for her and give her the support she needs.

@Johnnysgirl should everyone just give up on her? She's still a child and needs help. Her behaviour is totally unacceptable and she needs professional input to manage her behaviour and her emotions.

Sure. As long as the victims of her vile behaviour are offered similar support, she seems to have the starring role in all this. Typically.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 09/09/2022 10:33

There's a meeting in school next week for her readmission.

OP posts:
Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 08/09/2022 23:03

I hope so too.

I think she'll be isolated regularly for the benefit of both her and the school community. A PRU might be considered now but I don't know. I'll hopefully know more tomorrow.

It's like she's two different people. There's the behaviour I've talked about on here and then there's the funny, intelligent, caring, loving, affectionate, creative, talented, beautiful girl I know and love. It's a total head fuck for me as her mum but I know shes not rotten to the core. She's very lost and she needs help to find her way. I don't condone any of her bad behaviour and won't tolerate it.

OP posts:
rainbowmilk · 08/09/2022 22:44

I hope that the victims of her violent behaviour are also receiving support for what they went through, especially given that she’s now coming back to their school - but having been in the education system I highly doubt it.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 08/09/2022 22:39

School said she didn't fit the criteria for a PRU. I thought that would be ideal for her and give her the support she needs.

@Johnnysgirl should everyone just give up on her? She's still a child and needs help. Her behaviour is totally unacceptable and she needs professional input to manage her behaviour and her emotions.

OP posts:
Lightuptheroom · 08/09/2022 21:51

@Alwaystoblame you can ask for a network meeting so that everybody involved knows what is happening. School will communicate with you as soon as a plan is put in place. You can state that you are not the first point of contact.

@Goingforarun the PRU or alternative provision will likely be the next step now that the managed move has failed.

Goingforarun · 08/09/2022 21:23

shouldnt she be at a pru?

Johnnysgirl · 08/09/2022 21:15

Mariposista · 08/09/2022 21:13

She needs help but school is not the place for this girl.

I have to agree.
I think we need a big meeting of parents, camhs, school and social services to put things in place for her to be supported but also to make sure she knows we are all on the same page
Why? Why do all these agencies need to dance around your daughter offering "support"?

Mariposista · 08/09/2022 21:13

She needs help but school is not the place for this girl.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 08/09/2022 21:09

I don't know the exact plan yet because neither school have communicated anything to me. Dd thinks she can waltz back in to her original school and there be no issues with anything. Her dad is fuming with her. I've not known him this angry so maybe he will finally be the parent she needs him to be. He's certainly had enough of her. Social services are seeing what support they can provide, CAMHS are doing the same and that was before this happened today so I hope she will accept whatever support is offered. I intend to be fairly hands off and leave Dd and her dad to it. He wanted her living with him after all. I know school will let me know what's happening soon because they are pretty good at communicating normally. I think we need a big meeting of parents, camhs, school and social services to put things in place for her to be supported but also to make sure she knows we are all on the same page. She needs to attend counselling/camhs weekly on the programme they want her to attend. She needs to attend school every day and be on time and attend every lesson. Basic stuff I know but she needs it spelling out to her. I'm hoping that her being back out small town doesn't mean I'll have trouble locally from her and her mates again. I enjoyed the peace and security of her being miles away knowing that she wouldn't be hanging around the park here after school and up to anything she shouldn't. Nor could I be expected to collect her from school at short notice or be on tenterhooks if the phone rang and it was school. In fact I had no calls from school at all in the last few weeks of term. It was great. Dd2 just gets on with stuff and doesn't get into any trouble. She's not happy that her troublemaker of a sister will be back at school. Pass the gin!

OP posts:
LimeTreeGrove · 08/09/2022 19:53

Johnnysgirl · 08/09/2022 13:49

Surely they don't have the resources to teach her in isolation for more than a very short period of time?
What's wrong with her? Confused

I imagine she'd just get sent work to get on with in the school isolation unit rather than get any teaching.

Crazycrazylady · 08/09/2022 18:34

To be honest, the terrifying lack of empathy for anyone in her life would lead me to believe that she is perhaps beyond 'help'
She's always right, her victims 'deserving it'.. it's almost sociopathic in nature.

Porcupineintherough · 08/09/2022 15:11

I don't for a second think the OPs dd "can't be helped" but certainly she needs more intensive and compulsory intervention than is being provided at the moment. I feel really sorry for her actually (easy for me as I don't have to deal with the fall out from her behaviour).

I do think the OP has done what she can. What a pity her father is so ineffective.

Johnnysgirl · 08/09/2022 13:49

Surely they don't have the resources to teach her in isolation for more than a very short period of time?
What's wrong with her? Confused

Lightuptheroom · 08/09/2022 13:34

Yes, she can be permanently excluded from the original school, but as you've said she would have to do something against the school rules and which warrants permanent exclusion.
She can still be suspended (used to be called fixed term exclusion) if she breeches any rules that don't warrant permanent exclusion
School can also refer for alternative provision (some areas still call this pupil referral units) so she'd still be on the schools roll but 'directed off site' for a fixed period, normally to try and make sure that she has basic GCSE's and they don't have to constantly isolate her.
She may have felt the new school was going well from her perspective, but it sounds like the new school were having to use too many resources to keep her there.
Keep communicating with the original school, especially if dad allows her not to go back, because the local authority has to make provision for her somewhere

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 08/09/2022 13:08

It was all going great according to Dd but she now admits it's not.
She would have to do something violent or otherwise terrible to be permanently excluded. If she doesn't behave in general she will be taught in isolation for the rest of the school year. Her dad has previously objected to this but the fact is if she behaves then there'll be no issues and she can attend classes with her peers. If she continues her current behaviour then she only has herself to blame for being isolated. Two weeks ago she was happy to be at the new school and wished she'd gone there earlier, it was much better than her original school and she had lots of friends etc. all a fabrication from the sounds of it. I will not be getting overly involved but I know her original school will communicate with me well and they know I'm supportive and won't take nonsense from Dd. Her dad is the one she lives with and he will be doing the managing of her attendance and behaviour. I give her 2 weeks before she's in trouble again. She's too predictable and he's too lenient.

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 08/09/2022 12:07

Well that didn't last long did it?

Does that mean she's now at risk of exclusion from the original school if she doesn't conform?