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AIBU?

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Original poster

Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

635 replies

Alwaystoblame · 27/05/2022 14:10

Posting for traffic.
How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes.
I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

OP posts:
Legofigure · 09/10/2022 15:26

Professionals often don’t give parents the correct information and LAs and schools often act unlawfully. You need to check what should be happening and the law yourself using information such as IPSEA, SOSSEN and reading the SENCOP. Then advocate for DD and enforce her rights.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 09/10/2022 15:22

The professionals involved are who are telling me these things. I'll get onto it asap.

OP posts:
Legofigure · 09/10/2022 14:51

How can I apply for one when she's not here with me?

You don’t need DD to be with you. Who has told you that? You can request one using the model letter on IPSEA’s website.

How can she be assessed if she's not going to school and doesn't engage with any professionals?

Children and young people up and down the country go through EHCNAs when they aren’t in school. Why do you think she needs to be attending full time in order to apply? If DD can’t engage with professionals using their normal techniques and assessments the professionals need to change how they assess her so she can engage. You would be surprised what a good EP, SALT, OT, psychiatrist, clinical psychologist can pick up even when DC can’t engage, and the fact they struggle to engage demonstrates in itself there are unmet needs and they need SEP.

DD needs assessments and appropriate support and provision, by not applying for an EHCNA she isn’t going to receive the support she clearly requires. One should have been requested way before now.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 09/10/2022 14:23

How can she be assessed if she's not going to school and doesn't engage with any professionals? How can I apply for one when she's not here with me?

OP posts:
Legofigure · 09/10/2022 14:04

I have suggested an EHCP but her support worker that she now has has said she needs to be in school for one to be done.

This is incorrect. You can apply for one yourself.

The same goes for any ND assessments.

This isn’t correct either.


She's getting lots of support although I'm not sure it's the right kind of support but they can't work out what will work as she's never in for any significant amount of time.

This is why an EHCNA is needed.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 09/10/2022 13:17

I have suggested an EHCP but her support worker that she now has has said she needs to be in school for one to be done. The same goes for any ND assessments. Her attendance is down to 50% and she's not doing her homework. She's got a detention tomorrow for disrespecting the HT late on Friday. That's a good start to the week 🙄

She says I'm not supportive so I don't talk to her anymore about school. I just keep an eye on the school apps to know what's going on and receive emails from school. I think they'll be glad to see the back of her after her GCSE's. It would surprise me if she cheats at those by having things written down and/or using her phone. I'll have no sympathy for her messing up her school life. She's getting lots of support although I'm not sure it's the right kind of support but they can't work out what will work as she's never in for any significant amount of time. She's done 2 fulls days since she started back there. Not consecutive days either. This is the worst she has ever been.

OP posts:
Legofigure · 02/10/2022 21:31

School just don't seem able to identify and offer the kind of support she needs.

This is why an EHCNA needs requesting. Have you requested one?

Softplayhooray · 02/10/2022 21:29

I think it's time to step back and let her deal with the mess she created, so she has to deal with the consequences of her actions and clean up her own mess.

The UK is good for lifelong education, you can go back to college and uni at any age, so she can do that sometime when she's ready to put the work in and sort out her behaviour. She can forget about the FBI and other such fantasies with her record and rightly so.

She just has constant help from you (& you are an amazing mother - and she is so lucky to have you) but it seems as if she likes to weaponize 'wasting' the help you give her by messing up at school to spite you, herself, etc, throwing it back in your face over and over and over. It's happening repeatedly and it never works. She needs to learn to deal with the mess she's created without anyone else now bailing her out.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 02/10/2022 21:00

I think they are eager to keep her in school. She's academically very capable and will probably do ok even with her shite attendance. She just won't do as well as she's capable of. If she attends 95% as a minimum she'd be able to get As and Bs if she puts the work in. Otherwise she'll get Cs. That will disappoint her and limit her future options. If by half term she hasn't improved her attendance and behaviour I'll step in and ask about alternative provision for her. School just don't seem able to identify and offer the kind of support she needs. Her dad is far too lenient then will totally lose it with her and she'll run away only to be found by the police a few hours later. She promises to behave better and he attempts to listen and understand and all is good on the surface but nothing changes underneath so the cycle repeats. She is very lost and unhappy and it all goes back to when her dad left the family home.

OP posts:
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 02/10/2022 20:28

You are doing really well, @Alwaystoblame to not jump in and try to fix it all.

Stay strong.

Lightuptheroom · 02/10/2022 13:54

I'm amazed the school haven't referred her for alternative provision, sounds like they aren't getting to the root of all this

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 02/10/2022 13:50

Her attendance is 60%.

OP posts:
Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 02/10/2022 13:49

In a possible 9 days of attendance she has done 1 full day I think. She is late most days, has been truant, hasn't done her homework, hasn't stuck to the uniform rules, and has had 4 days off sick. I'm her outside of school life she's been reported missing twice. It's impressive in a very negative way. It will be interesting to see what this week brings!

OP posts:
Lightuptheroom · 25/09/2022 21:46

It really depends on the local authorities policy on alternative provision, because of how much it costs some limit places to those 'at risk of exclusion' though many alternative provision also do 'inclusion' where teachers from the PRU etc actually visit the student in their current school so it's definitely worth ringing the LA and asking them what the school has to do as it is always by school referral unless it's as a result of a permanent exclusion, when it becomes the 6th day statutory provision.

OhmygodDont · 25/09/2022 20:42

I still think a pru sounds the best place I don’t see how she doesn’t fit the criteria. More likely the school lose funding/have to pay for it or something silly.

she’s misbehaving, skipping lessons, violent to others etc all fits most I’ve none who’ve attended a pru be they super smart or struggling.

Brefugee · 23/09/2022 21:59

Bullying of people is rife in "boot camp" because collective punishments are A Thing. I would worry about any ND or resistant to authority child of mine who went to the army - their co-boot-campers are as much of a danger to them (if not moreso) than the training staff

Stripyhoglets1 · 23/09/2022 20:41

I've seen preparation for uniform services courses offered at a college. Not academic but focus on discipline and team working etc - seem directed at kids who struggle in traditional education.

Lightuptheroom · 23/09/2022 19:23

Also ask about a DOS placemt (directed off site) which is short term alternative provision...

Murdoch1949 · 23/09/2022 19:04

Your daughter seems like an ideal candidate for a PRU, where she will be in tiny groups with teachers experienced at dealing with similar pupils. Can you challenge the refusal to send her to one?

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 23/09/2022 18:16

Thank you, that's helpful to know. I'll make some calls next week. After a meeting with the head of year and sendco for my autistic Dd today at the same school I'm not feeling too confident in their approach. Reassuring Dd that she is feeling and experiencing the same as most of the other kids in her year minimised her experiences and difficulties. She's a few years lower down so we've time to iron things out. Dd1 is approaching the end of her time at school and needs help to access her potential. It's like it's locked away under all her anger and attitude.

OP posts:
Lightuptheroom · 23/09/2022 17:52

Local authority..
Send department... SENDIAS for help with assessments (EHCNA)
Fair Access team - advice on Alternative provision and what the school should be doing so that you know what they should be doing !!
Alternative provision offer is never just PRU, also different therapies etc

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 23/09/2022 17:08

Well she does need to learn some discipline if she wants to join to FBI. She needs structure and boundaries as identified by camhs but her father can't provide those. A couple of weeks of boot camp would do her good. She doesn't present clinically as depressed or anxious or anything else. It's really difficult to know what would be best for her.

OP posts:
Porcupineintherough · 23/09/2022 16:28

Military/bootcamp type provision for wayward teams is a big thing in the States. And guess what, its been shown time and time again that it doesn't work for the vast majority of children. Neither neurodiversity, nor poor mental health, nor emotional problems can be "cured" by being forcibly removed from your home and sent to enjoy a load of externally enforced discipline, tough love (punishment), fresh air, drills and hard physical exercise. It didn't work on young criminals in the 60s and it doesn't work on vulnerable young teens (not surprisingly given the cross over bw the 2 groups).

Goingforarun · 23/09/2022 16:00

When I worked with secondary boys with esbd and mh - staff that chose a military style of communication didn’t last.

CallMeLinda · 23/09/2022 15:17

Brefugee · 23/09/2022 15:09

Can you enlist her in the military if she is 16?

this gets trotted out so much. See also sending them to the military instead of jail.
a) why should the military fix society's problems?
b) do you have any idea how competitive it is these days?

Also I'm sure it's a wonderful idea to have emotionally unstable etc young people on bases etc with access to weapons. What on earth could go wrong there?