Page 11 | Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

Alwaystoblame · 2022-05-27T13:10:34+00:00

Posting for traffic. How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes. I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

oakleaffy · 09/11/2022 15:24

Alwaystoblame · 08/11/2022 21:50

No one knows what is going on with her but it's obvious that something is seriously wrong for her to behave this way. She's struggled with friendships since primary school and got into trouble for lying. Her work was average but no issues. Possible dyslexia but quite mild. Then she went to high school and loved it. Truly loved it. She was full of how wonderful her lessons were and would enjoy telling me about her different subjects and she obviously paid a lot of attention because she could relay everything back to me and clearly understood what she'd learnt. Lockdown was horrendous for her and she really missed school. Then once she was back in school she restarted seeing her dad after refusing to see him all through lockdown and started getting into trouble at school. Attendance dropped, police involvement as age kept running away, skipping lessons and so on. She was predicted good GCSEs. Could have been better if she worked harder but still good grades. At the last parents evening I was told she was capable of As and Bs and now her predicted grades are 4-6. She achieving below expected in everything.
Something else has happened today and school have called another meeting. I don't know what will make any difference for her. It's clear that living with her dad has not been a good move but I knew that anyway. There's no support there, he just yells and says he'll do this that and the other as punishment but never does. When she was here if I issued any punishments or consequences she'd run away. It makes it very difficult to parent her. She'll be 16 very soon and I dread to think what she'll be like by 18.

@Alwaystoblame
This must be incredibly difficult.
All one can hope for is that your Daughter somehow sees that by behaving the way she is only hurts her in the long run.
You don’t think she nay have been sexually abused by someone without you knowing?
Just a wild guess- This can have profound affects on behaviour.
It could be absolutely anyone.
I hope it isn’t the case.

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 08/11/2022 21:50

No one knows what is going on with her but it's obvious that something is seriously wrong for her to behave this way. She's struggled with friendships since primary school and got into trouble for lying. Her work was average but no issues. Possible dyslexia but quite mild. Then she went to high school and loved it. Truly loved it. She was full of how wonderful her lessons were and would enjoy telling me about her different subjects and she obviously paid a lot of attention because she could relay everything back to me and clearly understood what she'd learnt. Lockdown was horrendous for her and she really missed school. Then once she was back in school she restarted seeing her dad after refusing to see him all through lockdown and started getting into trouble at school. Attendance dropped, police involvement as age kept running away, skipping lessons and so on. She was predicted good GCSEs. Could have been better if she worked harder but still good grades. At the last parents evening I was told she was capable of As and Bs and now her predicted grades are 4-6. She achieving below expected in everything.
Something else has happened today and school have called another meeting. I don't know what will make any difference for her. It's clear that living with her dad has not been a good move but I knew that anyway. There's no support there, he just yells and says he'll do this that and the other as punishment but never does. When she was here if I issued any punishments or consequences she'd run away. It makes it very difficult to parent her. She'll be 16 very soon and I dread to think what she'll be like by 18.

OP posts:

oakleaffy · 08/11/2022 15:55

Alwaystoblame · 07/11/2022 19:53

It's gone from bad to worse today. Truant twice in one day. I have requested a meeting with the HT. HOY is great but has no clout on decisions. PRU is being looked into but it's not thought she'd turn up there either. Referral made to a service that deals with EHCP, counselling, family therapy etc. I don't know how long it will take to be seen. Today she refused to see her key worker. Her sack has found his spine and has removed all tech and banned friends from going round. This is the most he has ever done. She's gone ballistic about things.

If her Dad has finally found his spine, OF COURSE she will be going ballistic!
Par for course, but you both have to present a United front on her shitty behaviour.
( Bullying other children &c)

If Dad weakens now… it will be dreadful.
He has to keep it up.

She will be throwing strops aplenty!
But ride it out.
If she gets violent/ destructive- Say you will call police- and follow through.

She needs solid boundaries.

These make kids feel secure and loved.

Good luck @Alwaystoblame .

maddy68 · 08/11/2022 11:06

If they have spaces they have to take them. The LA finds the school anyway for an excluded child

LaGioconda · 08/11/2022 09:21

Alwaystoblame · 06/11/2022 12:28

Yes, I'm doing the EHCP. Not one of the professionals think it's necessary.

So what's their explanation for what's going on with her?

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 07/11/2022 19:53

It's gone from bad to worse today. Truant twice in one day. I have requested a meeting with the HT. HOY is great but has no clout on decisions. PRU is being looked into but it's not thought she'd turn up there either. Referral made to a service that deals with EHCP, counselling, family therapy etc. I don't know how long it will take to be seen. Today she refused to see her key worker. Her sack has found his spine and has removed all tech and banned friends from going round. This is the most he has ever done. She's gone ballistic about things.

OP posts:

Legofigure · 06/11/2022 12:49

They often don’t it doesn’t mean DD doesn’t meet the threshold for an EHCNA or that she doesn’t need an EHCP. But this is a child with clear unmet needs on the verge of permanent exclusion, so clearly meets the relatively low threshold for an EHCNA.

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 06/11/2022 12:28

Yes, I'm doing the EHCP. Not one of the professionals think it's necessary.

OP posts:

oakleaffy · 06/11/2022 00:59

The softy~Walter Dad is doing so much harm by being a soft~soaping ninny.
If he makes a 'Punishment'..Like takes phone away or whatever..he should stick to it, and not be a wimp and give it back on some pretext for a 'Quiet life'

He's giving in as it's easy to give in!
No backbone.

I locked DS's phone in a room once as a consequence, and he actually got the wood splitting axe and hit the Victorian panelled door to get to it. {Not a smartphone, even}

I called the police {On advice of a very experienced counsellor who had himself been a tricky teen }.

The police were very good, and to this day I don't know what the copper said, but he was very effective. {Thank you, whoever you were!}

DS was never disruptive at school, though, just a bit 'Flexy' at home, as he too didn't have Dad living with us.

Boundaries work better with some kids than soft soaping and making endless excuses for them.

It isn't easy.

Legofigure · 05/11/2022 22:06

She needs a more focused and supportive environment where she can get the assessments she needs and hopefully get some help from professionals who know what they are doing.

So have you applied for an EHCNA yet? As the route to assessments, support and a placement that better meets DD’s needs is an EHCP.

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 05/11/2022 21:58

Well here we are again waiting for the will they/won't they decision about permanent exclusion. She got into a 'minor' fight with a pupil in a younger year group on Friday. Bearing in mind she was told she'd be out of there was any violence or aggression then I expect this to be it. Of course the other kid started it and it was self defence 🙄 Of course her dad believes her version of events. Of course there's been no consequence for this and she's out all weekend with friends. Her attendance is at an all time low, her GCSE grade predictions have dropped by two grades and age only turned up to half of her mocks. I don't know the results of those yet but they will be interesting.
I have raised the possibility of a PRU again and her support worker is looking into this. She's capable of top grades but essentially doesn't give a shit.
She wants to go to one of the best colleges in the area but she's not even gone to any of their open evenings. She's not been to any anywhere for that matter. She's not done the support homework for college applications. She's not done any homework at all.
I am still struggling so much with the fuck you all attitude girl to the girl who came round today and brought me flowers and had a lovely dinner with us. The girl who was loving and kind to her little brother and wanted lots of hugs and was a pleasure to be with. It's a total head fuck for me. I think I'll see about therapy because this is going on for so long and it's exhausting.
She's hoping to come on holiday with us but I've said no and I'm standing firm on that one. She also wants to come for Christmas. That one will be harder to say no to.
I'm constantly on edge wondering what next. I just wish school would do something concrete instead of keep doing the same things that aren't working. I feel helpless.
She needs a more focused and supportive environment where she can get the assessments she needs and hopefully get some help from professionals who know what they are doing. So far it's all too softly softly and she needs more structure and boundaries with clear consequences at home and school. Although that's never going to happen with her dad being as pathetic as he is. No phone then he says but next day he's given it her back. No socialising with xyz then the next day xyz are at his house or he's giving them a lift. 🤯

OP posts:

Legofigure · 19/10/2022 12:07

Perhaps the question is, what would need to be in the provision of a plan so that OP’s daughter would benefit from it?

That’s what the EHCNA is for, to assess what SEP is required.

Bluevelvetsofa · 19/10/2022 11:43

It’s true that an EHCP can be started even if the child is not in school, although it could be more difficult to arrange the necessary assessments. Perhaps the question is, what would need to be in the provision of a plan so that OP’s daughter would benefit from it?

Murdoch1949 · 19/10/2022 11:01

Absolutely heartbreaking for you and your children. Your approach is right, though must be so hard for you to continue with. God knows how you manage to relax, if you do, in case another email pings in or you get a phone call. Look to the future, when she has grown up more, has accepted help, has turned things around. She has the brain to do well, when she chooses to. I wonder if, like an alcoholic, she has to fall to the bottomnest of rock bottoms before things can change. She's been rejected by alternative schools, her dad is now realising that you are not the bad parent causing the problems. What's she got left? She's controlling things by refusing to attend, but it's not achieving what she wants, if she even knows what this is. It is a terrible time for you, but you are being strong and loving to your kids. More power to you mama.

oakleaffy · 18/10/2022 20:55

Alwaystoblame · 18/10/2022 18:57

It's definitely a choice. She has so much support round her but her every action is a big fuck you then she says nobody is helping her.
He's not dealing with it well at all. Puts things in place but doesn't follow through. There's no consistency or boundaries so she has nothing solid to rely on with him. But this is their choice. They wanted this. So on with it they must get.

I do sympathise.
The “ Problem” girl at school was given too loose a rein by absent dad.
Lots of children are devastated when a parent leaves ( Abandons) but people lose patience after a while.
When adolescence creeps into adulthood, it just becomes a different ball game, and police aren’t as lax as a parent might be- And nor are members of public who are threatened by aggression.
If a child doesn’t do their homework-Or exams
it hurts no one in the end but the child.

The sooner they come to the realisation that actions ( or inactions) have consequences, the better it is for them.

The dad has to step up!

Tough love is called for ( Not a popular view) but I have seen it work .

Best of Luck, Op

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 18/10/2022 18:57

It's definitely a choice. She has so much support round her but her every action is a big fuck you then she says nobody is helping her.
He's not dealing with it well at all. Puts things in place but doesn't follow through. There's no consistency or boundaries so she has nothing solid to rely on with him. But this is their choice. They wanted this. So on with it they must get.

OP posts:

oakleaffy · 18/10/2022 18:05

What will become of her if she chooses to carry on like this?
A child at school was clearly “ disturbed and unhappy “ and I googled her name, and shes Still causing havoc, but as an adult, where police are unsympathetic to her threats and aggression, putting others at risk by her selfish behaviour.

It’s a choice.

Why behave badly , when it just leads to endless aggro?
I do wonder if it’s a form of sustained attention seeking?
Very exhausting to be around.

bewarethetides · 18/10/2022 16:37

Alwaystoblame · 18/10/2022 14:10

There's no way she can come back. I've been ill for the last 2 weeks and she has upped the ante. She has her mock gcse exams this week and so far has missed all of them despite being taken to school. She decides not to bother and gets the bus back home. Her dad is really struggling with her now. He's finally realising what it's like to be her parent and he's not enjoying it.

Good. Frankly, it's about time he realised how he's made it harder for your and his own daughter by his own refusal to actually parent properly and back you when she was behaving badly instead of her.

i'd tell him this, too, when he tries to get you to let her come back to your home. Tell him there's zero chance of that happening right now. He's helped create the problem, he needs to be the one to be sorting it. Clearly his turn.

Ellie56 · 18/10/2022 15:26

Alwaystoblame · 18/10/2022 14:10

There's no way she can come back. I've been ill for the last 2 weeks and she has upped the ante. She has her mock gcse exams this week and so far has missed all of them despite being taken to school. She decides not to bother and gets the bus back home. Her dad is really struggling with her now. He's finally realising what it's like to be her parent and he's not enjoying it.

Good. It will be interesting to see how he deals with her after failing to back you up all this time.

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 18/10/2022 14:10

There's no way she can come back. I've been ill for the last 2 weeks and she has upped the ante. She has her mock gcse exams this week and so far has missed all of them despite being taken to school. She decides not to bother and gets the bus back home. Her dad is really struggling with her now. He's finally realising what it's like to be her parent and he's not enjoying it.

OP posts:

Crazycrazylady · 14/10/2022 21:35

Absolutely op, please hold firm and don't allow her back. Your other children have been through so much became of her already.
It would be different if staying with ye would help her but it hasn't in the past and it wouldn't again and would only further stress your other children out along with you which impacts them so much.
Keep going as you are , love and support buy from a distance.

Legofigure · 12/10/2022 11:36

If you don’t have to appeal, which I appreciate many do, the process takes 20 weeks. Being Y11 isn’t a barrier, as Novum posted, EHCPs can last until 25, or 26 in some circumstances. There are other posters on MN whose DC haven’t had an EHCP until post 16.

Novum · 12/10/2022 08:05

The fact that she's in Year 11 is irrelevant - an EHCP can be in place potentially up to the sge of 25, and she has to be in education or training up to 18 anyway.

Original poster

Alwaystoblame · 12/10/2022 01:00

I think the EHCP was dismissed due to timescales. She's in year 11 and I'm told it will take 6 months or so. I will raise it again though and seek one myself. I need to do one for autistic dd2 as well.
So far this week she's been an hour late to school yesterday and told school some alarming lies about her dad. Then late again today. Two detentions so far.
She has an emergency camhs appointment tomorrow at my request due to the escalation in her behaviour. I can't take her because I have covid so her dad is going. That's best anyway because he's the one on the receiving end of her behaviour at the moment. He's dealing with the full brunt of her behaviour now and is realising that actually it's bloody hard work being her parent when she lives with you full time and that maybe things aren't my fault at all. Not that the narc will ever admit that of course. She's asked a couple of times in the last few days about coming back to live with me. I'd love that but sadly it's not an option. Her dad wants her to come back to me too. Yeah I bet he does! His work is suffering because of having to change his hours, he's making mistakes, he's late, he's very stressed, having to take time off for her appointments and nonsense. He's not got other dc full time at his though so they aren't affected like my dc are by her behaviour. They suffer enough on the days they do see her. My two are more settled without her here although we all miss her. She needs to get better before she could come back. Even short visits are fraught with danger and everyone is walking on eggshells.
Sorry just venting. I really appreciate the support and knowledge and experience of your posts, thank you.

OP posts:

Shiningstarr · 09/10/2022 17:19

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread. Just wanted to reach out and say hope you get sorted. My son was a nightmare in year 10 and 11. He fell in with the wrong crowd, attendance was very low, I was getting at least 4 x calls a day from the school with various things he was doing / had done. I was exasperated.

He scraped through some GCSE's somehow and got into college after a bad asthma attack made him realise what he had been doing, he ditched the bad friends and turned his life around. He's now on his way to being an electrician.

It's really tough but all you can do is be there and try to support as best you can x