To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

Apologies, I have read your post above...I should've added "in the media" or some such thing. The stories about kids being killed, etc. are being used in the House of Lords as justification for this portion of the bill. Now, in many cases, it wouldn't have mattered because the parents didn't have a criminal record (lots of people are shit parents, but don't otherwise break the law).

Would you say the same about all parents, then? That is, if we DBS all parents/carers, and we keep a handful from harm, is it then worth millions of people being required to have DBS checks?

Can you demonstrate one case of home educated (or purportedly home ed) children who were abused without foreknowledge of social services, et. al?

Yes. Me. It happened to me personally.

Please see: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4556359-to-think-that-having-to-have-a-dbs-check-to-home-educate-is-unfair?page=13 (halfway down)

Can you demonstrate one case of home educated (or purportedly home ed) children who were abused without foreknowledge of social services, et. al?

So you would be happy to have to have a DBS check for no reason other than you have children?
It is a huge waste of resources and will cause delays for people who actually need DBS checks for work.
But why should home ed families be targeted with this? All parents should be DBS checked if they are going to do this. As there are so many parents who send their kids to school who abuse and neglect their children. I know of plenty that do.
It starts the process of giving them so much more control over everyone's lives and gives the LAs more reason to overstep the mark, there are plenty that do already without this. When will they stop at what they control and decide on your behalf?
Also who will decide what crimes that show on DBS checks will deem you unsuitable to home educate? And if you are deemed unsuitable to home educate your own children, then should you be parenting at all?
I feel this would be a huge waste of time. Also who would foot the bill for these DBS checks? If they expect parents to pay then this is again unfair, we pay for everything for our children's education already with no funding to help with these costs, we pay for resources, tutors, exams. Everything that is provided in schools we pay out of pocket for.

Makes no sense....so I parents can have children, raise them, teach them to walk, talk, read, eat, ride bikes have fun....but as soon as it comes to educating them at home they'd need a DBS check....WTAF???!!! What about the thousands and thousands of kids who have been assaulted in schools...some by teachers who have had DBS checks???? They count for nothing! The gov need to get the schools sorted and help with their funding etc before trying to push Home Ed kids into a system that cannot cope already. Oh and they need to stop trying to make home ed parents feel like criminals and making tge general public think they are weird! Home ed families rock and its about time people realised this is a parental right! Kids don't have to go to school to learn. They can still get qualifications, degrees and achieve what they want in life. There are millions of kids who have already and will continue to thrive like that. School is a choice😊

That would be disgusting and a very good reason to be appalled, so why are more people not appalled by this discrimination?

You seem to be confusing context based safeguarding with racial profiling.

There's no correlation between those making an active choice to home school their children (which is a great choice for some families for sure, loads of positives) and people who are still subject to structural, societal and casual racism. This comment is ignorant though as they aren't checks as such, but there are schemes which target certain groups already.

I wouldn't be arsed about being DBS checked to be honest, I am for my job anyway and don't assume I'm interesting enough for the government to have a desire to collate my data for anything nefarious.

It's essentially discrimination against a minority of the population. There would be a universal uproar if they said they were bringing in a register and home checks for West Asian or black families, simply because of crime rates or a potential for terrorism. 🙄 That would be disgusting and a very good reason to be appalled, so why are more people not appalled by this discrimination?

The whole "we don't need safeguarding because It Never Happens" line reminds me exactly of the line so frequently spewed by TRA.

Funny how often Things That Never Happen, actually do happen.

I'm not going to pretend I've read all these comments, but from the page and a half I have read, geez you guys are so ignorant!
If they want to come at home ed parents like this, they'll come for all you school parents next; they'll want you to have a DBS check to make sure you're fine to have your child during school holidays, and don't forget the home visits for all your kids in the 5 yrs before school. Then they'll probably expect you to do a DBS check at your first midwife appointment, and if you don't pass, then abortion or the child will be taken from you at birth.
Oh and don't ever think you'll be able to take your child out of school because they are battered by bullies and teachers, school's the best place for kids right? 😹😹

Seems fair enough.

Next step - adding all parents to a 'register', when the only register that exists in the UK is a 'sex offenders register'. How would 'school parents' feel about the government intervening in their weekends with their children 'just to check on their wellbeing'? There has only ever been a couple of case of 'high profile' home educated children being shown to be at risk - one poor child died, yet schools and parents fail their children in huge numbers yearly! It may seem I proportioning blame, im not, but where do we draw the line...why has the government decided that Home Education is a safeguarding issue...why have they decided that home ed children need to be monitored....oh yes...COVID hit and so many parents realised the failure of the education system and saw that, with LOVE 9the central word that should be the forefront of all parenting), patience and hard work, parents can educate their children better than any school teacher who is teaching 3o children at one time - and yes, I used to be a school teacher who's students achieved extremely high grades constantly at GCSE and Level, yet, my child at 5 is probably on par with schooled children aged 7-8 in some subjects, (not my trained subjects) and on course with his school counterparts in others...why? Because I work one to one and through support and engaging him, he adores learning...something that 99% of home educating parents do too!

Totally agree...next step - adding all parents to a 'register', when the only register that exists in the UK is a 'sex offenders register'. How would 'school parents' feel about the government intervening in their weekends with their children 'just to check on their wellbeing'? There has only ever been a couple of case of 'high profile' home educated children being shown to be at risk - one poor child died, yet schools and parents fail their children in huge numbers yearly! It may seem I proportioning blame, im not, but where do we draw the line...why has the government decided that Home Education is a safeguarding issue...why have they decided that home ed children need to be monitored....oh yes...COVID hit and so many parents realised the failure of the education system and saw that, with LOVE 9the central word that should be the forefront of all parenting), patience and hard work, parents can educate their children better than any school teacher who is teaching 3o children at one time - and yes, I used to be a school teacher who's students achieved extremely high grades constantly at GCSE and Level, yet, my child at 5 is probably on par with schooled children aged 7-8 in some subjects, (not my trained subjects) and on course with his school counterparts in others...why? Because I work one to one and through support and engaging him, he adores learning...something that 99% of home educating parents do too!

Seriously, the cases of abuse amongst home education is children who WERE in school, WERE known to agencies including social services and WERE failed by these agencies.

This is flat out untrue.

Plenty of HE kids who were abused had NO prior contact with social services and social services were not aware of their existence and had no reason to conduct any checks, as they were not on SS radar at all.

Remember the only cases you hear about are the .1% of cases involving murder or very very severe abuse. Most abuse is secret. Most abuse never comes to the attention of police or SS. Most abuse never gets in the news.

If someone wants to abuse their kids and they deregister them in order to do so, and the abuse isn't of a level where the child is being hospitalised, often the abuse lasts until the child is a teenager and old enough to either run away or move away, or until the parent loses interest. The child grows up and leaves home, all without the police or SS or the media ever knowing about it.

Not to mention it's not always active abuse but often neglect, where parents deregister their children and claim they're going to HE because they just can't be bothered, and the children aren't physically or sexually abused but neglected in terms of being denied any education, and sometimes neglected in other ways. These cases very rarely come to the attention of the police or SS. Many survivors don't even realise until they are much older than what happened to them is a crime.

What about children who face serious emotional and physical abuse at school?

And now we're back to whatabouttery and "but some people lock their doors and still get robbed, so what's the point of not leaving your door wide open."

So does that mean ALL parents should have a DBS check?
Many children don't go to nursery or preschool before starting school. That means for 4 years it's possible for them to be invisible. Then there's the holidays, should all parents have a check just before the 6 weeks holiday as, let's face it, anything could happen in those 6 weeks!

Should all parents have a DBS at the start of pregnancy. What happens if they have had a conviction, 'oh sorry, you need to terminate as you stole something 5 years ago'.

Seriously, the cases of abuse amongst home education is children who WERE in school, WERE known to agencies including social services and WERE failed by these agencies.

Some of the most serious cases are children who were at school each and every day.

What about children who face serious emotional and physical abuse at school?
Oh, that's right they're at school and it's the best place for them away from the evil clutches of their loving families

AppleWax Thank you 😁

I think this idea of ‘specialist in their own field’ is odd, many teachers are actually teaching outside their subject specialism.

Many home educators facilitate their children’s education, and are aware of activities/tutors/resources to supplement what their child is doing if they feel their subject knowledge is not matching what their child needs. Their educational philosophy usually adapts to the needs of the child, and often will try a few different pedagogical approaches as well. The home educational community, on a whole, is supportive and you can find a wide range of families who are home educating for different reasons.

Most home educated children do take GCSEs or equivalent, with many going on to college or university. The beauty of home education is that you can help them develop in the areas that they are interested in and support in areas that they need as well. Home educators do this with no financial support from the government or LA, organising and funding GCSEs etc themselves.

The problem is that home education is perceived to be a safeguarding problem, when home education in itself is not. Your tax money would be better spent in recruiting social workers, mental health teams etc who are well educated and supported in their roles, so that they can identify children and young people who need the support across society, regardless of where or how they are educated.

Rather than plowing ££ into a DBS check for home educating parents, which would not identify cases of neglect or abuse, why not create something more positive that would benefit all families? This money should be spent on establishing a good relationship between the LAs and the home education community, so both have mutual respect, support and build trust that both will uphold their duties and responsibilities with regards to the education of home educated children.

What a strange perspective. Even a qualified teacher will not have specialist knowledge of each and every subject. This is why children are not taught by one teacher at senior school level but a number of teachers who have trained in the specifics of their field. I looked for alternatives for my dc but in the private sector rather than assuming that my own skills were sufficient. I’m educated to degree level with a higher attainment in English and History than most but I wouldn’t assume for a second that I could teach my child to even an equivalent standard than an actual teacher with specialist training in their field.

Even if a parent was capable of teaching their children to the required standards - and for the sake of those children, I sincerely hope that is the case - they should of course be subject to the same checks that other teachers are. If they are as capable as you seem to think there should be no issue with that. There should also be league tables, minimum standards and consequences for those not performing to the required level in the same way as schools.

The system we have is letting children down and a full overhaul is required. And that’s without even taking into account the parents who use the complete lack of supervision to isolate and abuse their poor children which is the biggest issue in this whole debate.

Home Education should be seen more as individualised private education, perfectly legal and is actually the default. Parents who send their children to school have taken the decision to let the state provide education to their children via the school system.

One of the reasons that OFSTED exists is to check the state school is meeting agreed standards and report back to the parents if the school is achieving this, and if not, the measures being put in place to correct this.

If you have been educated successfully through the school state system then surely your education is at a high standard and you should be more than capable of educating your child to at least that standard? If not, then could you argue that a state school education is a poor standard of education and it is understandable that parents are looking for better alternatives their children.

It would probably surprise people just how many ex teachers home educate because they have lost faith in a school system that is not fit for purpose, failing both school teachers and schooled children.

I’m so very sorry this happened to you. I lost my ddad at a similar age and it’s heartbreaking that no one was there to protect you.

As a bare minimum checks and visits should be carried out to ensure that the children are safe. It’s a disgrace that nothing has changed since you were a child. While there may be some good parents who choose to homeschool, there are bound to be others with nefarious intentions and it’s far too easy for abusers to isolate their children. I also think there should be regular assessments to ensure that children are actually being taught the relevant information to sit and pass exams. If they aren’t then they should be sent back to mainstream school. The parents may not approve of traditional learning but the kids will need to find employment and function in the real world and they have a duty to ensure they are prepared for that.

Another forgotten child here: www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/jordan-burling-report-into-death-of-18-year-old-leeds-boy-from-neglect-recommends-more-scrutiny-of-home-schooled-children-3701360

Thank you for sharing your experience op. It can’t have been easy.

A DBS would potentially pick out a few cases for extra monitoring etc. same as some DV will be picked up by midwife screening, but not all.

If DBS checking all homeschoolers saves a handful of children from abuse it’s worth it in my opinion.

Genuine homeschoolers with no criminal record (posing a threat to children) will have nothing to worry about. It’s a bit of paperwork. Bigger picture here.

From people I know in childrens services “homeschooling” is often used to cover up abuse, though obviously there are many genuine homeschoolers.

YANBU because it is almost certainly pointless. Some posters are saying that all children deserve safeguarding,but the best way to achieve thst would be through external visits from Ofsted (or a HE equivalent). DBS checks are very unlikely to make a difference. It's not like they give you truth serum and a lie detector test and then ask if you're a child abuser: DBS is just a background criminal record check, a very blunt instrument really. I imagine that most people who commit abuse in a family setting are unlikely to have any convictions on file that would show up in a DBS, so its just s waste of parents money