To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

I don’t think it’s true to say no one is campaigning against us. The home education “register” for example, every single child on that register will already be registered somewhere else. So why is it necessary? What will it actually add?

See? There's no talking to conspiracy theorists who believe that everyone's out to get their children.

Nobody is "campaigning against you".

“I think ultimately we all want the same thing, which is for children to be safe and protected.“

No I don’t think we do want the same thing. Home Educators want their children to be happy, educated, safe and protected.

Those who campaign against us couldn’t care less about ‘happy’, are willing to sacrifice ‘educated’ for ‘safe’ but consider children being in the care of a mix of strangers trying to supervise 30+ children at the same time whilst surrounded by abusive peers and a stressful target driven environment with no personal agency as ‘safe and protected’.

Frankly I don’t know why such people don’t just suggest sending all children to prison for their own protection at the earliest possible age. Then they will be even better ‘safeguarded’.

Yes, I don’t think anyone here wants children to be abused. I do think there are valid reasons to be suspicious of authority and that those suspicions aren’t inherently bad or negative - regarding the LAs, many regularly overstep which is what’s made a lot of us wary of them.

I agree with that, but I think ultimately we all want the same thing, which is for children to be safe and protected.

I certainly have no interest in forcing children into a school system that clearly fails many children and is utterly unfit for many types of SEN. Like I said, I have a lot of experience with the HE community and I'm sure your parents were like the HE parents I work with, who only want what's best for their children and would jump through any hoops to support their kids being able to access whatever education is right for them.

Most HEers on Mumsnet (this is probably true of most HEers overall) have kids who started out attending regular school, probably have siblings who attend school, and had to remove them either due to bullying or lack of SEN accommodation. They often stick at least somewhat to the National Curriculum, ensure their children at least take Maths and English GCSE, and tend to be involved in other organisations like sports groups or HE tutoring groups. The vast majority of parents just want what's best for their children and would have no problem with stuff like an annual check or other minimal safeguarding, but maybe feel burnt out or suspicious due to personal experience with LEAs who are hostile or overly demanding.

It's the tiny minority who HE because they're ideologically opposed to government/authorities, avoid any contact with authorities, don't register their children with doctors, never enrol their children in school or kindergarten, and have an unusually high level of concern over beliefs the government is monitoring them. There's often but not always a link between people who fall into the latter category and far right or religious groups, or to conspiracy theories.

I can and will happily talk to the former, but there's no talking to the latter.

Thank you @JemimaPuddlegoose Im sure we are all shaped by our experiences. Mine was positive of home but poor at school, yours was the opposite, which obviously gives us different perspectives on issues such as these

ForestFae I'm truly sorry that you suffered abuse at school. I'm very aware of how much abuse there is in the world, in all different arenas and situations.

@JemimaPuddlegoose i was home educated for a period of time, after I suffered abuse in school. It was a blissful experience and I had no issues whatsoever with it. It was such a positive, and school such a negative, that it’s one if the reasons I home educate mine. As I said, school is not a safe haven for many.

It’s pointless trying to break through to the none Home Educators here

And vice versa

Because its not saying that all home educators are abusers. Nothing remotely like that.

Its looking at the question of how to check on 'invisible' DC

And I am amazed at the number of posters who think that the sort of information that can be shown by DBS checks is already known to 'the authorities'. Is is not routinely shared, and requiring a check will mean that any information is indeed shared

It’s pointless trying to break through to the none Home Educators here.

It's pointless trying to break through to the non-home educated here.

most of them can’t think outside of their ‘send kids to school obey conformity’ mindset.

Um, I literally used to work for an Home Education organisation and was in contact with Home Educators every single day. If I had a child (or hopefully when I have children) I would definitely either home educate or send them to a forest school. But sure knock yourself out about how super duper special and non-conformist you are and how everyone else is a dumb robot.

as long as THEIR civil liberties aren’t affected

I already have an enhanced DBS that is regularly updated. I'm not asking for anything that I don't already do personally.

would happily have us and our children all microchipped and our homes installed with live CCTV for ‘safeguarding’.

What do you hope to gain from making up this kind of hyperbole? Why are you trying to undermine the concept of safeguarding by conflating it with what sounds worryingly similar to Q-Anon style conspiracy theories about government monitoring?

They have no interest in our lived experiences

You clearly have no interest in my "lived experience" as the only person (or at least the only one who's mentioned it) on this thread who actually was deregistered from school as a child.

I kind of think spite comes into it a bit also.

Accusing child abuse survivors of being "spiteful" for wanting to prevent other kids from being abused is probably the most spiteful thing I've ever read here.

I don't even have children. My ONLY concern is protecting other abused home ed kids like me.

Completely agree with this.

What a load of shite

It’s pointless trying to break through to the none Home Educators here.

As far as they are concerned we are all potential abusers and as long as THEIR civil liberties aren’t affected they would happily have us and our children all microchipped and our homes installed with live CCTV for ‘safeguarding’.

They have no interest in our lived experiences and most of them can’t think outside of their ‘send kids to school obey conformity’ mindset.

I kind of think spite comes into it a bit also. If their kids have to ask an authority to go to the toilet, must sit at a desk quietly being droned at by a 9-5 clock watcher who couldn’t care less about them, must tolerate peer abuse by little sociopaths who have learnt ‘might makes right’, have to be told what to wear, when to wake up, when to play, what is permitted in their lunch box, what to learn, how to learn it etc etc etc then why should Home Educators and their children not have to suffer also?

The things most parents will inflict on their children for free childcare and hopefully a suitable one size fits all education!

I’m sorry that happened. I was abused at school, by peers and certain teachers. No one in the school cared at all. The idea that school is a safe haven for kids is laughable, one of the reasons I home ed is because I don’t want my kids going onto what’s pretty much a bear pit.

Part of the reason I am considering home educating is that I was once a child in an abusive and neglectful home and not a single teacher ever picked up on the many, many signs of abuse and neglect.

It made me realise how little most teachers care for the well-being of their students - or that perhaps they just don't have the time to notice the signs of abuse in such large class sizes. Either way, I don't want my child in that system that cares so little.

Oh please, people who decide to remove their children from school are not a "minority group." Comparing yourselves to actual minorities is offensive.

No one is holding you responsible for other people abusing their child, merely suggesting that it shows a shocking lack of empathy to aggressively argue against safeguarding that could save children's lives, because you're choosing to put ideology above preventing abuse.

I'm sick of constantly seeing all the anti-safeguarding, whatabouterry and "it never happens" arguments trotted out by TRA, and I'm sick of seeing those exact same arguments here.

It is similar to when people ask or expect minority group members to apologise when someone else from said group commits a crime. It’s frustrating.

I certainly did not say that I "don't give a shit about abused kids". I said that law abiding non-abusive home educators should not be blamed for the abuse of children who aren't sent to school.

Saying that home educators should want to come up with a solution to end abuse because if we don't people might think less of us, we might be blamed for it and we might be subjected to stricter laws just isn't proportionate or right.

Blame the abusers for the abuse .

I am a bit confused by what you are saying on this thread

Sorry that you're confused.

To clarify: I'm saying the fact that abuse is commonplace disproves the statements "safeguarding or trying to prevent abuse is unnecessary because most parents love their kids."

What do you think the ideal solution would be to the problem "home educated children are being abused"?

What do you think the solution is? You're the expert.

Why should we?

Because basic empathy?

You'd think anyone with the tiniest atom of human feeling would want to protect children who are part of their own "minority community" from being abused, especially when that abuse does so much damage to how HE is perceived and can easily be used to justify restrictions on HE.

It's disturbing how many HEers seem to take a policy of, "I don't give a shit about abused kids, I'm happy to sacrifice other kids if it'll help me avoid the most miniscule intrusion into my own life."

I am a bit confused by what you are saying on this thread

What do you think the ideal solution would be to the problem "home educated children are being abused"?

What is the "core issue"then Theibebriati ?

No home educators do not have to "come up with an alternative". Why should we? Home Home education is the legal default for education. It's up to law makers and politicians to make new laws. I am not personally responsible for the behaviour of other home educators, just like a man isn't responsible for the behaviour of all other men. I wouldn't ask my dentist to "come up with a solution" to the problem of some other dentists mistreating patients.

It's not "whataboutery" to talk about abuse that goes on in schools on a thread about home education. Isn't school where you would send a home educated child that had been abused by their parents?

Well , yes, but the vast vast majority of those children will be attending school.

And a lot of that abuse is only picked up on because they attend school.

HEers aren't any more or less likely to abuse their children, so why - when child abuse is so common - dismiss the concept of safeguarding with a blithe "well most parents love their kids so we don't safeguarding."

There hasn't been a single compelling argument by HE's on this thread, but there has been a lot of whataboutery that has nothing to do with the core issue.

This isn't about you; a cohort of abusers is hiding behind home education. Something needs to be done about that. If you don't like this suggestion come up with an alternative.

But you haven't answered whether you believe that all teachers and medical staff are treated like criminals

They should have checks to look for convictions for violent or sexual crime, but crucially in my opinion, nothing else should show up. The more sanctimonious MNers will say that if you once stole some sweets you should never teach or be a nurse but in the real world rehabilitation is a thing.