To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

"Most people objecting to default DBS checks for HE families to ensure safeguarding are not objecting to checks."

In my experience of having participated in numerous debates on HE here on Mumsnet, that is not the case.

HE threads on Mumsnet tend to be overwhelmingly and aggressively against any form of checks at all. I know I've been involved in some absolute humdingers where other posters were absolutely steadfast that even a once a year check was oppression and state interference in their rights, would do nothing to flag abuse, and all the usual whatabouttery about kids being abused who do go to school. Perhaps it's just a very loud minority, but past debates have become really hostile towards the concept of monitoring in general and outright abusive towards anyone anyone who was home educated (or denied education under the guise of HE) and negative about it.

By weird coincidence I briefly worked as a tutor for a home education organisation (an organisation which provided various courses which HE parents could use to create their own curriculum, if they wanted their children to have more formal structure, or if they felt they were not qualified to teach certain subjects). So I have experience working with 'good' HE parents and I understand the very valid reasons many parents choose to HE and the shit that fantastic HE parents deal with from LEAs. It's insane how varied LEAs can be and that there does not appear to be any kind of overall consensus or implementation.

Jemima I am so sorry for you situation, you were clearly horribly let down. By your Mother’s unmet mental health needs, by what sounds like an appalling predatory man and by the fact that there was never any check on you by your LEA at all throughout the rest of your childhood. Your educational circumstances and/or lack of involvement with other services should have red flagged SS for further checks ( potentially including DBS checking )

Most people objecting to default DBS checks for HE families to ensure safeguarding are not objecting to checks. Just asking for appropriate and useful ones. HE is not a red flag in an of itself, just a reason to make sure a child known and observed in some other way.

There is an LEA register for homeschooled children, most local authorities are nothing but helpful but there are very small minority who have been obstructive and have acted to force children back to mainstream school without cause or reference to their circumstances.
The argument from HE families, is that all LEA’s should all act within the Law and that they should be adequately resourced observe childrens’ wellbeing when checking on Educational provision or flag other care services to do so. Eg calling unseen children for health or dental checks. If there is cause for concern then escalation would be appropriate.

To those who might ask why I think I could be qualified to HomeEducate my child especially beyond basic primary level, I don’t. Qualified Teachers do that as they do with the other homeschooled kids at secondary level I know. It is the LEAs job to ensure they are receiving a suitable education and most sensible HomeEd families who have a non-hostile LEA have no problem with providing evidence of this and keeping their children seen regularly by care professionals.
Not being regularly seen and not being educated are red flags, Home Ed isn’t.

Home Educating families are asking for these things to be understood as separate.

As a home educator I'm not against a register of some description, though I can sympathise with those families who have been let down again and again by school & LA to such a point that they've lost all trust in the authorities.

But such a register needs to be handled sensibly and with sensitivity. I think it's important to know how many are home educating, what the reasons are (so lack of provision for SEN etc in schools can be addressed), and support should be offered for those who want/need it. The people who work for education departments in LAs need to have training to understand the different types and philosophies of home education. With current levels of understanding there's no wonder so many home educating families are completely against LAs being involved.

"If there were a group of adults who felt horrifically let down, would they not be voicing their support for increased regulations?"

Nobody listens to us and we get abuse when we try.

Just popping on the thread to point out (again) that DBS checks for Home Ed Parents isn't a real policy and isn't going to happen.

It was just an off the cuff and ill informed remark made by one member of the House of Lords in the debate on the Schools Bill.

It would be silly to ask parents to submit to a DBS check because (as PP have pointed out) they are a measure to help employers and not really relevant to parents looking after their own children in their own homes. Also, they tell the authorities almost nothing about the quality of parenting and education that the person is providing.

Here's the briefing papers for that debate which explain what the bill is about. As you can see the proposal for home education is: "a register and support for children not in school"

I think its important to be clear about what the bill actually says because some home ed parents are getting themselves really worked up about things and worrying their kids will be forced back into school.

For what its worth, I support a register. Home education has grown exponentially in recent years and has also been misused as a cover for unregistered schools, off rolling and yes, sometimes child abuse.

Its really important that, at a minimum, local authorities know who the home educated children are. Thats the first step to checking they're OK.

As for what home educated children should learn and how suitability of home education is assessed, there is already a body of law on this. The education has to be "an efficient full time education suitable for his age aptitude and ability and to any special education needs"

Caselaw has established that the education should allow the child to function in wider society (not just, for example, within an alternative lifestyle or a religious sect), should include literacy and numeracy and must have some element of instruction (as opposed to the child simply exploring their world without adult guidance).

Thats the benchmark that people on the new register will be held to. I feel thats its pretty reasonable and leaves space for a wide variety of teaching and learning styles.

"Also (correct me if I'm wrong) but every case of a home educated child that I have heard of has been a child who was previously in school and known to social services before they were removed so really nothing to do with home ed at all and more ss being to quick to wipe their hands of responsibility."

"That is right. I don't know of any case ( that is in the public domain) of a home educated UK child being abused where concerns hadn't already been raised by someone. Please correct me if I am wrong. Children who are deliberately hidden, not registered or trafficked are not home educated."

Yes you are wrong.

I've posted about this before (and got absolutely loads of abuse) but it happened to me. I grew up in a very normal middle class household, did well in school (was actually considered a gifted student), no concerns or contact with SS. I lost my dad when I was 11 and my mum had a breakdown and a much younger man took advantage of her and moved in, and started abusing me. Mum couldn't cope so she was coerced into writing a letter to Harrow LEA saying she'd decided to home educate.

I received NO education at all from that moment on, apart from reading books we already had in the house, and basically didn't go outdoors or do anything except watch TV or read for years. No doctor or dentist appointments, nothing. Her boyfriend tried to sex traffic me, and I ran away from home and became homeless when I was 17, going on benefits and into a B&B and then a bedsit.
Not once - NOT ONCE - did anyone from any kind of government body or authority make any attempt to get in contact with us or check up on me. Literally not once. It was like the minute they got the letter I no longer existed.

The first contact I ever had with SS was when I was 16, after the first time I ran away. Before that I'd never had any contact with SS and was definitely not on their radar at all. My mum writing a letter saying she'd decided to homeschool didn't raise any flags and no one ever tried to check up or do any kind of monitoring.

Curious about the wording of "public domain." My mum's boyfriend was arrested and sent to prison. So I guess that makes it public domain? It's exceptionally rare for a child abuse case to be severe enough that it makes the press. Child abuse is terrifyingly common, but how often do you even read anything about child abuse in the press? Usually only when a child is murdered. You really think it doesn't happen just because you're not reading about it over your cornflakes?
I know through my involvement in peer support groups for abuse survivors that cases like mine are very common.

People see what they want to see.

Mis-spelling even, ill and head is pounding...

Although I think it would be interesting to have teachers sit a grammar exam...

Part of a child’s education is in morals, and civic responsibility. Society has an interest in ensuring that no child learns these solely from a person with criminal convictions.

Not sure if it was a typo or being wiped out with a bug in regards to miss spelling numeracy....
Although I know the difference between to and too so better grammar than a few teachers from what I gather from threads I've read in the past.

There is absolutely nothing stopping them from asking adults who were home educated to complete a survey. They can gather data. If there were a group of adults who felt horrifically let down, would they not be voicing their support for increased regulations?

Numeracy. Your first sentence really doesn’t work, either.

Please tell me you are not in any way involved with educating children.

I hope you don’t intend to teach your children statistics or formal logic.

So many posts by fervent supporters of unchecked home learning on here are making it very clear in their posts where some of the issues are.

I feel like this is a cheap option for the government, instead of putting into place a proper system of monitoring and support for home ed parents.

Am considering home ed myself, but am put off by the total lack of support available. If I home educate I'd like to be able to access support such as funded training and resources.

I am not familiar with the case either, but it sounds like issue is with the school. As well as then failing to report, I would like to add to this discussion that schools are not safe.

I believe the statistic is every day in the UK a girl is raped at school.

I know I suffered a lot of sexual harassment at school, although wasn't raped at school.

I think about two years ago there was a story, I think a year or 2 ago about a little girl in primary school and boys held her down and shoved a car or something up her vagina. Now she can't have children when she's older. I have read several posts on mumsnet about in primary school, girls being sexually harassed when changing for PE.

How many suffer bullying resulting in depression, anxiety, self-harm and suicide?

I think this is all pretty horrifying, why are people focusing on home education? Schools are dangerous! The focus should be, why aren't schools safe for children, especially girls? What are they doing? How are they going to make it safe? They are not safeguarding children. Those things cause lifelong damage.

Considering most children go to school and there are significant safeguarding problems, that is where the attention ought to be going.

What about the non-serious crimes?

And what about rehabilitation? I assume you're one of the ones who says a leopard can't change its spots.

Indeed - another "tick box" approach to regulation, and achieves precisely nothing.

Of course there are more school children suffering abuse at home, because the vast vast majority of children attend school. What people worry about is the percentage of children in each setting who suffer abuse and neglect
Well, why are you so concerned about it when there is no data to back this up? Why assume that a high percentage of home educated children suffer abuse and neglect?

You misunderstand the impact a DBS check can have. As I've now said several times on this thread, they show up more than sexual and violent crime. Do you really want some jobsworth in a local council deciding whether you are a fit and proper person to educate your children at home (or facilitate their education eg by using something like InterHigh) because you stole some sweets when you were 16? Spent convictions should not show up if they didn't lead to prison sentences, but they do.

There are loads of sanctimonious people who say you shouldn't be allowed to work in a school in such circumstances.

The DBS system is not fit for purpose and needs a thorough overhaul to stop fishing expeditions and to ensure that only information that needs to be disclosed, is disclosed.

Where is the evidence that a larger proportion of home educated children have lower literacy, numerousy and generally poorer outcomes than school educated children?

We both know there's no data, because home educators have campaigned against even a register of home educated children, let alone monitoring or comparison of outcomes. The authorities don't even know how many home educated children there are, so of course there's no data beyond that.

I do hope, however, that you aren't teaching your children to spell "numerousy"

There are far more children who attend traditional educational settings (schools) that suffer abuse than those who are home educated. So on that basis we had better DBS check all parents, on an ongoing basis because as others have pointed out they are valid only up until the point of being issued

Of course there are more school children suffering abuse at home, because the vast vast majority of children attend school. What people worry about is the percentage of children in each setting who suffer abuse and neglect.

I don't believe that home education in and of itself makes parents more likely to abuse or neglect their children. But for those who do, it provides an excellent way of reducing the chances anyone will notice what's happening.

Exactly. So why blame it on home education? I am not familiar with the case in your post, but if concerns had been raised before the child was deregistered the abuse was already happening and action should have been taken while he was still at school. Blame the school instead.

There are far more children who attend traditional educational settings (schools) that suffer abuse than those who are home educated. So on that basis we had better DBS check all parents, on an ongoing basis because as others have pointed out they are valid only up until the point of being issued.

Where is the group of now adults who experienced this coming forward?

Where is the evidence that a larger proportion of home educated children have lower literacy, numerousy and generally poorer outcomes than school educated children?

Yes of course. But there aren't many home educators like that. There are many other groups/ categories of people in society where a small minority commit crimes. Should they all be checked on by someone? How far should the checks go? How often? For example, Preschoolers are also abused and killed, often when they were already known to SS.

Abuse won't be stopped by DBS checks or occasional home visits. We need to start by making sure children are brought up not to become abusive adults

Also, education and safeguarding are two different things.

Are you joking? Because safeguarding concerns had already been raised they should never have been allowed to home educate. They used it as a way to hide him from those who could have helped him, and it resulted in his death. If he had stayed in school education then he would have had trusted adults who he could have asked for help, who would have noticed his deterioration, and who could have stepped in more effectively.

I agree with you. A DBS check is not sufficient on its own, and it only works when someone has been caught before. It does nothing to prevent the first crime. Jimmy Savile would have had a clean DBS check.

Even in schools, it's always coupled with safeguarding training that covers topics like making sure you're never alone in a room with a child.

In person checks, annually at a minimum and preferably more when the child is first home educated, should be compulsory. Spending a day a year with a qualified teacher cannot possibly be construed as breaching anyone's human rights.

DBS checks can be part of it - and no one sensible would think a conviction for something irrelevant (motoring, tax evasion, petty theft as a teenager, or similar) would preclude home education. But preventing those with a history of offences against vulnerable people, or extremism, from home educating children can only be a good thing.

It's very sad. But it's wrong to blame home education when concerns had already been raised.