Why why why do people have kids without marriage

It's not a race to the bottom. That you think comparing to others makes it better pretty well proves my point.

Yes. Child maintenance. The same as previously married parents get if they separate.
There isn't a different rate for previously married couples

No morals? What morals are they then?
My sister and I are both single mums. She was married, although not until after the baby was born. I wasn't ever.
She's slept with more men this year alone than i have in my entire life. So I could say I've got better morals than her. But I'm not a judgemental twat.

@IstayedForTheFeminism

bog standard maintenance if unmarried

family-law.co.uk/child-maintenance-when-unmarried-parents-separate/

Sounds like he had crap legal advice then.

Either that or it was so many years ago that things have changed considerably in which case its not relevant any more.

But I'm sorry that happened to him. It must have been hard.

I agree, OP. The worst is reading people saying they are TTC and speak of their boyfriend/partners. I mean, why TTC when not married? I understand accidents happen but to deliberately TTC when not married is really messed up imo. These women have no morals and no sense. They just don't care.

@IstayedForTheFeminism he was told by his legal team the whole way through that his unmarried status was against him and the courts wouldn’t be favourable. This was some years ago now, but it definitely affirmed my preference for marriage, horrible to see a man emotionally diminished like that.

Various other friends also - one realised she’d be homeless and ex wife/kids would get house if DP of 20yrs died… promptly married. Another due to have 70:30 split of assets to her in divorce, if unmarried lucky to get 50:50.

All an unmarried Father needs to do is have a DNA test done (courts can order this I believe). Et voila. He can be added to the BC and have the same rights as the mother.

And men can be ordered to pay maintenance even if they aren't on the BC.

@IstayedForTheFeminism she blocked access, he took her to court. She made up all sorts of nonsense and played the mother card the whole way through. It was awful. I would hope they eventually came to some agreement better than what was there. But it was dreadful to witness.

She wanted a sperm donor.

Rights and protection for the kids - it isn’t all about the division of assets.

An unmarried father doesn’t even have parental responsibility in some cases and does not have the same obligation to pay maintenance for offspring as a married father.

If you were able to come to an amicable arrangement that is great; many other men and women aren’t so lucky and lose their rights.

I really wish unmarried had the same protections, it seems grossly unfair, particularly on children.

I had a partner once who got to see his DC once every 2 wks for 8 hrs. All he was entitled to as unmarried. Soul destroying.

Huh? Why could he only see them 8 hours per fortnight? I was never married and my ex is "entitled" to see the DC as much as he wants (he doesn't). He could even have taken me to court to have them live with him if he so wished.

Not being married makes no difference to child contact, unless he wasn't on the BC which is a different matter anyway.

@Worriedatwork1 isn't it?! As an aside to how 1930s some of these views come across as, it feels like some really can't fathom that not everyone has 'assets' hanging around that you might lose out on should your wealthy husband leave you. A proper- dare I say - upper middle class/wealthy point of view being painted on this thread.

I'm incredibly thankful I didn't marry the idiot that fathered my first child. That was a swerve!

^ This…

I had a partner once who got to see his DC once every 2 wks for 8 hrs. All he was entitled to as unmarried. Soul destroying.

When myself and now DH wanted a baby I insisted on marriage - for my own security, but also I didn’t want to ever have so much power over him if the relationship fell apart.

I think marriage protects men and women.

Because many think not getting married, going ahead to have sex and have children is an expression of "freedom" forgetting that women bond and so hurt differently from men. In the real world women make the most sacrifices for their children not counting the medical risk of pregnancy and child birth but the slow down in career generally.

Women simply don't know their power. If all women united, refused to have sex or bear children the men will sit up and listen!

I didn't feel any rush to get married because we earned the same amount, we jointly owned our house, we had wills and we both went down to the same part time hours when kids came along to share the childcare 50-50, so neither of us was at a financial or career disadvantage. We didn't have any powers of attorney or anything like that though, which I would have looked into if we hadn't eventually got married (because we wanted to be married, rather than protection for either of us)

I think your partner earning a lot more than you is more precarious than not being married, as it seems to send so many women down the path of shouldering the part time working/career hit/childcare on their own while their partner keeps on climbing the career ladder and widening the gap.

Having a baby was more important to be than getting married. But once my daughter was 2, I wanted to get married, I just felt that I wanted us to be married and lots of our friends were, so we did. It was never a big issue.
I never knew the financial implications of being a mum without being married. I never considered it. Was only when my daughter was 2 that I thought about it.

I think good on 'em. I wish I hadn't married dd's dickhead dad. Why do people persist in saying that you are financislly sorted if you marry him? Worra load of bollocks

I had my daughter before I got married. We shared a house with a joint mortgage so it didn't bother me, as I knew my finances were ok. He was (is) a good man and I knew he'd pay maintenance if we split.

Got married when she was 3, had our son 2 years after, divorced 10 years later. Yes he did pay more than he was required to pay, maintenance.

Why do you care?

Because sometimes in life, things happen beyond your control? You can’t plan every single detail of your life.

I fell pregnant early into a relationship. Was it “ideal”? Not on paper, no. But many years on we’re still together, planning to get married soon, I’m still working, we own a home together and have two beautiful kids. We’re doing pretty damn well.

Plenty of people go down the traditional route and end up with an abusive, piece of shit husband who doesn’t do any parenting and/or cheats on his wife. No one has an ability to see into the future and having a wedding band on your finger doesn’t guarantee infinite happiness and success.

I think this thread is quite bitchy to be honest. It has similar undertones to people who whine about how millennials can’t afford to buy property because they eat avocado and toast, rather than the huge disparity between average wages and average house prices.

Don’t be so smug. You have no idea of what your future holds, and in 5 years time you might be coming on here asking for advice in case of a divorce. No one knows. So I’d definitely take a step back and re-evaluate.

@Dixiechickonhols what if it had been your dh who have developed health problems though? Not to say you wouldn’t have wanted to care for him but marriage would have made you worse off in that scenario.

ultimately there’s no guarantee marriage will be good for women financially. Marry if u want to. If u don’t then don’t

isahlo I developed a life threatening condition triggered by pregnancy and spent my 30s having multiple surgeries plus DC was born with a disability - double whammy!
Prior to birth I had same job and earnings as him.
I was married but when I see people post about just keep working and you’ll be fine you don’t need to marry I do think of my situation.

A couple of my nieces have had children with their partners because " we can't afford a wedding but want to have a baby."
There seems to be this idea among many young people that they have to spend a fortune on an Instagram worthy wedding so buy houses and have families without getting married.
I've also seen a few women whose partners are marriage shy have a whoops baby as an attempt to get their partners to commit.

@MrsTerryPratchett emm yeah but there’s lots of good reasons women don’t want to get married. It’s not just because we’re stupid and feckless as per your list.