Why why why do people have kids without marriage

It's about protections, NOK, Power of Attorney, funeral arrangements, and so much more.

What protections? I don’t understand the power of attorney point - is that automatic for married couples? NOK has no set legal status in the UK. Funeral arrangements - no idea on this one but no more relevant for people with children than without surely.

I must have hit a nerve! 😂

It's not just about money. It's about protections, NOK, Power of Attorney, funeral arrangements, and so much more.

This thread could be renamed Why why why do people have kids with men who aren’t rich?

It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference unless there are some reasonable assets involved. Getting divorced from a man without much money is bit going to leave you better off than if he was just your boyfriend.

😂 load of bollocks.

Because not all of us want a husband. But we want a child. I wouldn’t give up being a single parent for anything. I never found the right man to marry, and had zero interest in marrying just bc of a baby.

I have been perfectly happy being a single mom. I have an awesome teenager, two great jobs, and a great village.

Her father would have been more of a financial liability, and would have made me miserable to boot. She brings me pure joy (except, well, teenagers and all, lol).

Genuinely wouldn't change a thing.

You’re totally right about that legally. And it does cause massive issues in families when people assume their long term relationship gives them some kind of security when it doesn’t . I have always known that I had no claim to anything without marriage and I’ve worked around it . Ex had a bit of an estate left to him, I gently nudged him to leave equal shares to all his children so that my step kids and my our shared all got the same. Then we had a life insurance policy that was left entirely to me which would have taken the pressure off raising them all. To be honest though, even if there was absolutely nothing there and I was cleaning through the night while my oldest babysat we’d still have been okay. I came from absolute poverty and have slept in disused garages as a child. I wouldn’t freak out at having nothing in the bank and it would never get to the point of nothing in the fridge . We’d muddle through . Marriage only gives you the security of your partner’s finances if they leave /die. It’s not to be sniffed at , but I remember sitting with my stepson when he was 9 ish and we had no money and I had said everyone should settle down because we didn’t have much power on the meter , and he said ‘what will you do if it runs out?’ And I said ‘ well I’ll light a few candles and read to you till you fall asleep’ and he smiled at me and held my hand. Things have been better ever since that period, they improved no thanks to his dad . I’m knackered and stressed sometimes and my youngest is a good candidate for ‘ little shit of the year ‘ sometimes but you’ll never, ever see them scruffy or miserable. And I’ll never wish I’d married any of their fathers .

Men want to keep their options open and women want children.

Well we don't all of the luxury of choice! I was 18 months in and age 38 before it was obvious that my choices were:

• Try for a child with this man that I love despite him not offering me that OR
• Split and try and find someone else

If your partner died you'd have no legal rights to see his children again. Marriage also gives you Next of Kin, Power Of Attorney, rights to organise funeral, be on death certificate as spouse, etc etc. Marriage gives you so many protections. You are stuffed without it, and people only realise this when a tragedy occurs. Then it's too late. The importance of marriage and the protections it offers needs to be taught in schools.

Because it does in other jurisdictions. Australian law is very different on this matter with ‘de facto’ relationship being a legal thing, same as marriage. There are loads of Australians in the UK and vice versa, so it stands to reason people take their experiences with them, and share them with friends.

Say a couple go to Australia on a working holiday and end up settling for a few years, living together. Australian law recognises that as a legal relationship. But if they move back to the UK, it’s suddenly not. But marriage, which is also a legal relationship, would be treated as being valid in the UK. It’s understandably confusing.

Australia and the UK have very similar legal systems, so this is a huge difference. I enjoy mumsnet for the UK focus, fair enough that’s the assumption of a person’s location. But people make general statements based on their jurisdiction, without stating where they are located, and those statements, made with great authority, do no universally apply across the readership of mumsnet.

Basically, buyer beware. Everyone’s situation is different!

I can't understand why people are planning babies/kids with boyfriends/partners but are unwilling to bring up marriage. Or then you have the woman who think once they have 1or 2 children he will marry them then. Marriage gives both people more legal rights. Also if your husband or wife was to pass away your not left with a big tax bill if you inherit the family home, life insurance ect. You could be also entitled to a widows pension or a tax allowance if your husband/wife dies.

I know of a case at the moment where she had a baby for him a few years ago. They are not married. The house is in his name with no mortgage on it. They both work outside the home but he earns probably 2.5 her salary. She pays towards the child care and bills. I found out recently that he has a will made where the house, his pension and any life insurance will be held in trust for the child. His solicitor will be in charge of paying out these funds.
When the child is 18 they will own this house. Meanwhile his partner won't own the home they currently share after his death. She will have to ask for and justify why she needs money for the child from his solicitor. She won't even be eligible for a widows pension after he dies because they are not married. Her income is far less then his and I know she find it hard to pay child care, bills ect on her income.
He meanwhile has a number of health issues. It's quite possible that he could have to leave work due to poor health before retirement age or he could die at younger age due to poor health.

I know another man whose girlfriend got pregnant when they were both in college. They are still together and now have 4 kids. He won't marry her and they both work. If anything was to happen to him or her the person left with the 4 kids would be left in a worse position than if they were married.

Most of my friends that have children are married. The majority of them were married before having a child. Some of them got married within a few years of having a child once they realised that being married give her/him better legal protection.

Because people get emotionally attached to other people and don’t think about financial details?
ive had one child aged 17 from a man who was an absolute loser, I’ve then stayed with a guy for 10 years and helped raise two of his kids as well as mine and then had another child with a man I wasn’t married to. The guy I’m with now loves and is kind to all of these children , and I live in a really nice house in a really nice place. Mainly because I don’t see marriage as a financial transaction and I don’t , and have never needed a man financially , if my ex had dropped dead I’d have kept his kids and raised them like my own. I’ve got a good career and a good life balance . To me , marriage is a contract that involves finances it also involves control and obligations . I don’t need it . I don’t fuck men I dont trust . I have step children I love because the men I love had made mistakes and I have everything I have because I made all the choices I did . That’s why I have my own 20 yr old daughter , 4 step kids from an ex, and my own youngest with my most recent ex and him because he’s lovely at my house this week . It’s my life , never married , never poor though and a massive bonus family I can’t imagine life without . I’m just blessed I suppose :)

have commonly seen in divorces I’ve been aware of that ex DH continues to pay wife’s credit card amongst other things, and/or school fees (including university), health insurance for kids etc

I suppose it depends on your perspective. If both spouses are on low wages it probably doesn’t matter as much.

Well I certainly wouldn't want to be tied to an abusive man for life through a baby, so I definitely would have terminated as it would have been wiser imo. But I recognise that's only my opinion.

It is a valid relationship status for some things. For example you can get a spouse visa to the uk for a common law relationship.

So are you saying that because my sons father was abusive to me (for the 1st time, once I was already pregnant) that I should have terminated?
I had never planned to be a single mum but I did a better bloody job on my own that a lot of married couples I know!

@Robinni yes if one partner is a high earner they might have to pay spousal maintenance. But I believe that's very rare these days.

In purely child maintenance terms it makes no difference at all.

Although apparently I have no morals 👀👀LOL

Well I left an abusive relationship, so no quite the "market" you are looking for, but some just don't believe in marriage, some men are abusive, some men leave when they find out about the pregnancy...

Your question is disingenuous at best.

its a modern world we live in and why do we have to get married before we have kids??

who says that marriage can protect you?
I’m divorced (he had an affair) and I can honestly say it doesn’t matter as yea, you MIGHT get a little bit more money but the emotional stress, the bitterness at the end is horrific.
I wouldn’t wish it on anyone so I can see why people don’t get married.
if a guys going to screw you over, it doesn’t matter if he’s married or not!
I’m happy, have kids and unmarried and I feel confident with that decision.

@IstayedForTheFeminism

it would probably be more of an issue for those with high earning partners.

”If a relationship between unmarried parents breaks down, the options and amount of financial support and provision can be more limited than that available to married parents. In most cases support will be limited to child maintenance using the calculations set out by the Child Maintenance service as a guide.”

and another link going into the whole thing on how England doesn’t provide the same protections for unmarried.

www.iflg.uk.com/service/unmarried-couples

If it doesn't matter why did you say that women who have babies out of wedlock have no morals? That's a nasty judgmental opinion.
So either lack of morals matter enough that you can comment on them, or they don't matter.

Again, it's not a competition. It doesn't matter who has worse morals.

I'm not making it a race to the bottom. I'm just asking how you're defining "lack of morals".
Some people think sex outside of wedlock is immoral
Some think sex is OK as long as there isn't a baby.
Some think sex with a different man every week is immoral.
Some don't give a fuck how many people they have sex with.

So depending on your stance there I could have better or worse morals than my sister (or my brother for that matter).
Actually I don't think any of us have more/less morals than the others. We are different people who are all doing our best to raise our dc.