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Original poster

Why why why do people have kids without marriage

364 replies

changedandcantchangeback · 26/04/2022 20:12

Obviously if you earn more.. have an independent income... so NOT aimed at you..

But WHY after all these years do I see threads from economically improvised women STILL posting how they are so severely compromised ?

OP posts:
Hrpuffnstuff1 · 27/04/2022 07:15

Because people have been sold a lie that sex and love are free, a cohabiting relationship is inherently unstable.
Marriage offers legal protection, and empirical benefits, and is by far and away the most stable format for a functioning relationship.

We're currently planning a family DP wishes to marry first.

Sofielou · 27/04/2022 07:06

Applying morality to the decision to bring a child into the world who is loved, cherished and perfectly adequately provided for, is where it jars for me. When I think about "no morals" (I would never use that term, but if I did), I'd be thinking about a parent who brings a child into the world knowing full well they aren't going to love or provide for them sufficiently, and then proceeding to allow that child to suffer. That's "no morals" to me. Otherwise I don't care if a child has 1 parent, 2 parents, 3 parents, gay parents, straight parents, married or unmarried...... So long as that child will be loved, cherished and provided for, I make zero judgement on the morality of the parent or parents. I honestly can't understand how anyone would.

IstayedForTheFeminism · 27/04/2022 07:05

TalkingCat · 27/04/2022 06:47

I guess our grandparents and great grand parents have 'low intelligence and reasoning skills then'. 🙄

Or, perhaps, they were right.

I have to say I would be so embarrassed if my partner wouldn't commit to me after 26 years. Embarrassed and ashamed.

A lot of people of my grandparents generation didn't agree with gay marriage, thought there was no such thing as "marital rape" (which there wasn't in the legal sense, but women were expected to agree everytime), didn't believe in divorce, thought a woman's place was in the home etc etc.
I'm not sure I'm going to listen to their ideas of morality.

Fwiw both my grandmothers had "premature" babies. Born 6/7 months after their weddings at a surprisingly healthy weight. Wink
So although they were married by the time the babies arrived, they weren't when they were conceived.

D0lphine · 27/04/2022 07:02

AllyCatTown · 27/04/2022 06:17

I think a lot of women still want the man to bring up marriage and do the romantic proposal. I have a child and we’re getting married soon. It was me who brought up marriage. If I hadn’t my partner likely wouldn’t have. As to why I had a child first. I think I’m a good judge of character and trusted my partner. It was also time of coronavirus and so weddings were postponed.

I feel so sorry for the women stuck in precarious situations. There really should be more education on these issues.

I think 100% of women getting married would say they're a good judge of character and they trust their partner.

Yet half of them get divorced.

Sofielou · 27/04/2022 06:57

TalkingCat · 27/04/2022 06:47

I guess our grandparents and great grand parents have 'low intelligence and reasoning skills then'. 🙄

Or, perhaps, they were right.

I have to say I would be so embarrassed if my partner wouldn't commit to me after 26 years. Embarrassed and ashamed.

Erm, no. Mine didn't. But anyone who decides an entire group of people have "no morals", with no attempt to define or qualify that statement, shows an inability to critically reason and think things through at a higher level, imo.

wishmyhousetidy · 27/04/2022 06:56

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:39

If someone has no POA, then if consent is urgently required, who do you think they go to? Hint; NOK. Although that link doesn't set it out, that's how it works.

I promise you it doesn’t in the UK - it does in some other jurisdictions which might be why you’re confused.

Intestacy rules absolutely being married is relevant which is why my original point was that it isn’t important unless there are some unshared assets.

Sorry wrong thread:) my apologies

wishmyhousetidy · 27/04/2022 06:55

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:39

If someone has no POA, then if consent is urgently required, who do you think they go to? Hint; NOK. Although that link doesn't set it out, that's how it works.

I promise you it doesn’t in the UK - it does in some other jurisdictions which might be why you’re confused.

Intestacy rules absolutely being married is relevant which is why my original point was that it isn’t important unless there are some unshared assets.

I can’t work out whether you are just trying to be controversial or whether you really are as foolish as your posts make you sound

Buildingthefuture · 27/04/2022 06:53

Being married doesn’t always mean you are protected. And no one thinks that the bad stuff will happen to them. I’ve seen, so many times, women get married. They have a good career, but have DC and give it up. Understandable, you want to spend time with your DC, child care is expensive etc…..But they then end up doing everything in the home, including supporting the DH in his career, which progresses quite nicely. Life is good. Until they reach early 50s, when previously lovely DH fucks off with Miss 30 ish perky tits and the wife is left with fuck all. Kids are grown up so no maintenance and the husband has taken legal advice and hidden as much money as he can. He rides off into the sunset and the wife is left with the bare minimum, and very limited career prospects having not working for 20+ years. It gives me the rage and is exactly why I will never depend on anyone for my income.

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TalkingCat · 27/04/2022 06:47

I guess our grandparents and great grand parents have 'low intelligence and reasoning skills then'. 🙄

Or, perhaps, they were right.

I have to say I would be so embarrassed if my partner wouldn't commit to me after 26 years. Embarrassed and ashamed.

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:39

If someone has no POA, then if consent is urgently required, who do you think they go to? Hint; NOK. Although that link doesn't set it out, that's how it works.

I promise you it doesn’t in the UK - it does in some other jurisdictions which might be why you’re confused.

Intestacy rules absolutely being married is relevant which is why my original point was that it isn’t important unless there are some unshared assets.

Sofielou · 27/04/2022 06:36

speakout · 27/04/2022 06:26

TalkingCat "No Morals" ??? WTF? Do you see having children outside wedlock sinful?
People who this is so actually make me want to stay single.
Oh and I have been together for 26 years, two kids, no wedding.

I usually find that sweeping statements such as "no morals" in relation to an entire group of people are best ignored as they are indicative of low intelligence and reasoning skills, imo.

TalkingCat · 27/04/2022 06:34

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:28

Actually your link backs up my point that if you have no spouse they go to the next blood relative.And the link doesn't disprove that marriage is NOK at all. All it says is that you can choose who your NOK is.

You haven’t read it then - it says you can chose one if you like but that there is no legal status to next of kin and that they won’t have control over your treatment. So your scenario of your boyfriend’s family coming in and making decisions is not something that happens in the UK.

It’s ok to be wrong occasionally, honestly.

If someone has no POA, then if consent is urgently required, who do you think they go to? Hint; NOK. Although that link doesn't set it out, that's how it works.

Also, If you have not made a Will, the law sets out who has the right to deal with your affairs after you have died and who can inherit according to their legal or blood relationship to you. Your spouse or civil partner comes first, and then the closest degrees of blood (or adoptive) relative in this order: children, parents, brothers and sisters, and so on

says spouse or legal civil partner, if not legal then blood family.

As I said.

I'm not wrong. :)

IstayedForTheFeminism · 27/04/2022 06:31

Robinni · 27/04/2022 02:45

have commonly seen in divorces I’ve been aware of that ex DH continues to pay wife’s credit card amongst other things, and/or school fees (including university), health insurance for kids etc

I suppose it depends on your perspective. If both spouses are on low wages it probably doesn’t matter as much.

Show quote history

But school fees/university/kids health insurance isn't linked to whether the parents were married or not. An unmarried and separated couple could also split the cost of those things.

Paying ex Wives credit cards is more unusual though, I'll give you that!

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:28

Actually your link backs up my point that if you have no spouse they go to the next blood relative.And the link doesn't disprove that marriage is NOK at all. All it says is that you can choose who your NOK is.

You haven’t read it then - it says you can chose one if you like but that there is no legal status to next of kin and that they won’t have control over your treatment. So your scenario of your boyfriend’s family coming in and making decisions is not something that happens in the UK.

It’s ok to be wrong occasionally, honestly.

speakout · 27/04/2022 06:26

TalkingCat "No Morals" ??? WTF? Do you see having children outside wedlock sinful?
People who this is so actually make me want to stay single.
Oh and I have been together for 26 years, two kids, no wedding.

Sofielou · 27/04/2022 06:21

I think the question should be, does marriage mean a woman can be a more loving mother who is better able to provide emotionally, practically and/or financially for their children? If not, then what does it matter?

The answer to that question in my case is a firm no. My children are loved unconditionally, provided for in every way, and my 53k salary is more than enough to support them both if my partner walked away tomorrow. So - in terms of the impact on their lives - what does it really truly matter that I don't have a certificate legally attaching me to their father?

TalkingCat · 27/04/2022 06:18

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:10

Nope you’re wrong on NOK - so your claim that anyone should understand these things is quite funny.

Actually your link backs up my point that if you have no spouse they go to the next blood relative.

And the link doesn't disprove that marriage is NOK at all. All it says is that you can choose who your NOK is.

AllyCatTown · 27/04/2022 06:17

I think a lot of women still want the man to bring up marriage and do the romantic proposal. I have a child and we’re getting married soon. It was me who brought up marriage. If I hadn’t my partner likely wouldn’t have. As to why I had a child first. I think I’m a good judge of character and trusted my partner. It was also time of coronavirus and so weddings were postponed.

I feel so sorry for the women stuck in precarious situations. There really should be more education on these issues.

SScoobiedoo · 27/04/2022 06:13

I think women are naive about jobs - I worked in the NHS when I left school - not realising that I would have to choose between running a car or jetting off on holiday (this was the 70s). And a mortgage - haha not a chance.
I made sure my DDs did 'men's jobs'.
If they had to pay a mortgage on their own they could.

Seymour5 · 27/04/2022 06:13

Or, why why why do women with no means of supporting a family have children? Relying on a partner, whether married or not, might seem fine when we have a baby. But in many households, its not fine. Marriage was the norm for my generation, it didn’t necessarily mean equal partnership or happy families. I do agree however that marriage does confer some rights, especially NOK and financial.

As women are generally the parent bringing up children alone, perhaps the pitfalls of being a parent with no work experience or qualifications should be explored especially with girls at school? Its never going to be mentioned in some families, where the cycle of single parents bringing up children on benefits is the norm. The lack of aspiration or even realisation that there are different choices are big barriers to improving one’s life.

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:13

Anyone confused about NOK status - this leaflet explains it quite well. Also covers PoA which is not, as I suspected, automatically granted to souses.

www.stchristophers.org.uk/leaflet/frequently-asked-questions-about-‘next-of-kin’-and-power-of-attorney

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:10

Nope you’re wrong on NOK - so your claim that anyone should understand these things is quite funny.

TalkingCat · 27/04/2022 06:07

Fridafever · 27/04/2022 06:02

It's about protections, NOK, Power of Attorney, funeral arrangements, and so much more.

What protections? I don’t understand the power of attorney point - is that automatic for married couples? NOK has no set legal status in the UK. Funeral arrangements - no idea on this one but no more relevant for people with children than without surely.

Yes, it is. NOK is also automatically granted to spouses, and if you are not married ie not NOK then his/her parents or other relative can come in, decide on medical interventions against your wishes and also arrange the funeral. This is all basic common sense, I would have thought, and would have expected anyone to understand this. Marriage offers legal protections that not being married doesn't. It's why marriage exists, in the first place.

Sofielou · 27/04/2022 06:04

Micco23 · 27/04/2022 04:17

Because not all of us want a husband. But we want a child. I wouldn’t give up being a single parent for anything. I never found the right man to marry, and had zero interest in marrying just bc of a baby.

I have been perfectly happy being a single mom. I have an awesome teenager, two great jobs, and a great village.

Her father would have been more of a financial liability, and would have made me miserable to boot. She brings me pure joy (except, well, teenagers and all, lol).

Genuinely wouldn't change a thing.

I wouldn't change a thing about my two girls either, one of whom I raised by myself for most of her life. I'm immensely proud of them both and I don't need a marriage certificate to a man to validate my choice to raise them. It wouldn't have made me love them anymore than I do - that's just not possible as they are my entire world. Despite the judgemental bollocks on this thread about immorality (🙄hilarious - I work with violent and sexual offenders for a living, so my bar for "no morals" is somewhat different to an unmarried mother lovingly raising her children!)... I actually think I did a pretty good job in the circumstances I was in.