Why why why do people have kids without marriage

Yes let's put women back in their place and teach them that marriage is a priority, finding a man who wants to get married is the most important thing and moving on if the relationship isn't for you is the worst thing ever. Yay progress!

Because we are not taught about marriage and relationships as a priority, we go in totally blind, end up with people we can't trust who don't want to marry us, or co-parenting with an ex.

What can we do now except teach our children differently?

TalkingCat is TalkingShit more like.

“no morals and no sense”

Totally agree.

Pretty sexist to assume women are always better off by getting married, plenty of women have more assets and earn a higher wage than men- therefore getting married isn't actually beneficial, its likely to cost you. If you mean morally then what a crock of shit.

I got married in 1970, had 3 kids, oldest was 20, I you told me, I would meet a new bloke want another baby and not be married I would have said you were mad! I didnt believe in having children outside marriage, (It hardly ever happened in my generation, anymore than living together. Well I was 40 with many years of gyna problems, Dr. said you had better hurry up. Lost my house and possessions upon divorce, marriage was way down the exepense list. Got married when DD was 8.

Yes but when you meet these guys, you don't think your guy is going to be one of the shitty ones. And we're taught over and over again that if a guy has traits we don't like, we have to fix him, it's our job. Or at the very least understand him. Even on here, a largely woman's website, when someone's bloke is behaving poorly, someone will come on and ask if he's feeling depressed or struggling at work or had a bad childhood.

This thread highlights that despite all the challenges women face in society, other women are a huge part of the problem.

Language such as embarrassed and ashamed has been used; judging attitudes including accusations of “low morals”; patronising posts about lack of understanding of common law (whilst some posters simultaneously demonstrate a lack of knowledge on parental responsibility and spread other dubious facts on child maintenance via links they haven’t even read or understood).

There are very few protections marriage offers that cannot be replicated for legal and financial equality, and we’re in the inheritance tax range for those.

The discussion should be women having the expectation, and indeed demanding, equality in partnerships and the workplace bringing huge societal benefits for all.

But no. Instead, some smug marrieds continue to shame and sneer. I hope your DDs break the cycle in the way you are unable to.

I know a young man who is an undergraduate student doing a long course at a prestigious university. While all his friends share student type flats with their peers, he has a much nicer flat in a good area which he shares with his live in GF, who works in retail.

Although she doesn’t earn a lot, it’s more than a student loan. Of course she does all the housework as he is studying FT on his very important and demanding course. She even pops home at lunchtime to walk his dog.

He has no intention of being with her long term . He tells all his mates he will dump her as she’s not clever enough. He also means that she’s not from the right background but he doesn’t say that.

But she is very pretty and devoted, pays most of the bills and runs “ their “ car , does all the housework and provides sex on demand and doesn’t complain when he has nights out with other students. Because in her job she naturally has to work most weekends. So she’s happy that he’s so “ understanding “.

He plans to dump her as soon as he graduates and he will find a long term partner who he feels is more suitable. But she is facilitating his lifestyle now.

I feel sad when I think of that young woman. Yes of course she’s an adult and a free agent. No doubt she loves him and is happy to support him now because he will be able to support her and and their children later.

If she was on MN she would be telling us that they are a team and she’s investing in “ their future as a family “.

Because most people own their houses together as a couple anyway and most women don’t give up their careers when they become a mother these days?

You don't know what kind of father someone will be in advance. Some men step up, some don't.

Exactly. It's not marriage that is the protection - it is NOT giving up work and an independent means to an income and the protection this affords.

Being married doesn’t always mean you are protected. And no one thinks that the bad stuff will happen to them. I’ve seen, so many times, women get married. They have a good career, but have DC and give it up. Understandable, you want to spend time with your DC, child care is expensive etc…..But they then end up doing everything in the home, including supporting the DH in his career, which progresses quite nicely. Life is good. Until they reach early 50s, when previously lovely DH fucks off with Miss 30 ish perky tits and the wife is left with fuck all. Kids are grown up so no maintenance and the husband has taken legal advice and hidden as much money as he can. He rides off into the sunset and the wife is left with the bare minimum, and very limited career prospects having not working for 20+ years. It gives me the rage and is exactly why I will never depend on anyone for my income

Exactly. It's not marriage that is the protection - it is giving up work and an independent means to an income and the protection this affords.

I refused to marry and have 'wife' on my CV because I think marriage is a crock of patriarchal bullshit and with it comes a range of social expectations including that being a 'good wife' means putting his career first and doing 'wife work'. I refused that shit and put my efforts into maintaining my financial independence instead. Reading post after post on the relationships board where women were conned into thinking that marriage offered them 'protection' when it really didn't has utterly convinced me I did the right thing.

So why reproduce with them.

Sahm

My TA was absolutely convinced that she was a common law wife and had the same rights as a married woman , because she had been with her partner for 10 years and had a child with him. I tried to explain that there was no such thing as common law wife. This was years ago.There was a Panorama documentary on tv about women who had no rights to anything after their partners died. She watched it and was horrified at how vulnerable she was. They got married 6 months later. Not being married and being a shame is absolutely stupid.

Let's not forget half these men arent worth being married to. Some will be shit dads, abusive or not work etc.

What a load of tosh yes they do if the man gets up off his arse and goes to register the birth with you . If not apply to the courts for a DNA test. If a man you marry has no assets then marriage doesn't benefit you. You would just get CMS if you divorced.

Absolutely- me too re my children’s father, no intention to marry current partner either, even if we did decide to have a child together. I genuinely cannot believe people are even making some of these comments, I sincerely hope my daughter won’t ever feel she ought to get married to have children!

Economists have found that higher rates of marriage tend to be associated with higher wealth, income and level of education (I suppose because this links to long-term earning potential). So I suspect to a certain degree women are marrying if it is worth their while and it just becomes the done thing in certain sectors of society. If you want kids, you get married. Whereas if there aren't any assets and someone's income makes it unlikely that they will be able to build up substantial assets, it's not clear that marriage really provides any material protection. Especially since there is no longer social pressure to marry.

Because many people don't plan sufficiently well and don't carefully consider whether they have the right partner to marry and have children with.

Because I wanted to have kids but I don't want to get married?

(Haven't read anything else apart from the title of the thread)

because women nearly always want children more than men do…. Yes so they go ahead and do it

I think some women live entirely on trust and hope and zero common sense.

i Got pregnant unexpectedly and was
married within six weeks. It’s totally manageable although I suppose my husband was on the same page. No chance of they don’t play ball.

@IstayedForTheFeminism

Exactly. Ideas about what constitutes morality have evolved with the times. To not realise or understand that is, in my view, not particularly intelligent.

The question needs to be asked is how we ended up with so many useless men in society?