Why why why do people have kids without marriage

Agree completely with this - women need to keep their work and independence in some capacity. And be wise to DH money moves.

This post raises an important question…

Why are so many women willing to have children with men who are deadbeat and a waste of space - no assets and no likelihood of ever having assets…..

What is the point of this? If he can’t wipe his own arse how on Earth is he supposed to provide for a family?

Mystifying….

So on the premise that you reproduce with someone who is semi capable of getting a decentish job. Then marriage is important.

If he is on the tills at pound stretcher or getting job seekers then it doesn’t matter.

morestigma Things like death in service payment and pension. If you work for a some companies or public sector even low earners get these benefits - bin man, school cleaner etc. Yes can nominate partner but lots don’t realise they need to or get around to paper work.

Men are obliged to pay child maintenance regardless of martial status.

TBH rather than a lot of stuff people use as criteria to vote for candidates in elections, i think I'd go for (and i am in no way affected by this at all, my children are grown up and I've been married since forever) making paying CM a legally enforcable debt that leads to garnishing of wages and seizure of assets pretty darned quickly if there are arrears. Are any parties offering that?

Anyone can change most of these unilaterally at any time.

That is what would worry me, tbh. At least you can't divorce someone without them knowing, so (little as they may be) those legal protections are there. I think there is a way to kind of link wills, isn't there? Also wouldn't there be issues if your DP left you and your children, then married someone else and had a family, then died without leaving a will? Where i am you can't disinherit your children (well, you can but it is not easy) so that scenario doesn't leave the first family children out, but in UK it's different, i think? Also the other way round. If you marry then separate but don't divorce, so you can't marry your DP, if you die, that makes a problem for your DP against your still-spouse.

And while Church (other religions are available) marriage is pretty much still based on patriarchy (you can drop "obey" from the vows? great) a civil marriage is still pretty much a contract between two people. (although the civil service, IIRC, talks about lifelong commitment through thick and thin)

People need to know all these things. (not just those with children)

Morestigma £3500 lump sum (eg for funeral) and £350 a month widows allowance (bereavement support payment) if he dies and you are married with children. Easily replicated by savings/life insurance but low income earners often don’t have that. Law hasn’t been updated to allow cohabiting couples to claim it.

Saw one do this for ten years post separation while divorce was getting worked out.

A relative who divorced, no kids, lost 250k to spouse… if they’d just lived together wouldn’t have owed her anything.

In my case, because I don’t want to be married. Because I value my independence and am aware of my ability to raise my daughter whilst earning my own money. Because I am my own person and don’t want to be contractually obliged to stay in a relationship that isn’t fulfilling for me. Because I am financially ok alone. Oh, and as @TheOccupier states so eloquently, because I am a feckless idiot 😃

Anyone can change most of these unilaterally at any time.

And it doesn’t change the facts that fathers earn more and have better pensions than mothers.

Amd that mothers take more family leave and do more childcare and more unpaid labour than fathers.

And that mothers will be the main carers post split in 95% of cases, which adversely affects their earning ability and increases their costs.

In many unmarried couples, men have more savings and other assets than women.

So no, it’s only a near equivalent to the legal protection of marriage if both parties agree.

Oh, this again. Boring.

People on mumsnet often fail to realise that not everybody is a high earner.

What protection would marriage provide if the DH is stacking shelves at sainaburys, for example.

Me and my OH are both on minimum wage in entry level jobs, cleaning and retail.

What would getting married change for us?

Even if I was a SAHM (I'm not) then marrying OH isn't going to provide me any sort of protection or vice versa.

Men are obliged to pay child maintenance regardless of martial status.

Yes, indeed. Correlation is not causation.

'A long tradition of research and theory on gender, marriage, and mental health suggests that marital status is more important to men’s psychological well-being than women’s while marital quality is more important to women’s well-being than men’s. These beliefs rest largely on a theoretical and empirical foundation established in the 1970s, but, despite changes in gender and family roles, they have rarely been questioned. The present analysis of three waves of a nationally representative survey indicates that, with few exceptions, the effects of marital status, marital transitions, and marital quality on psychological well-being are similar for men and women. Further, for men and women, occupying an unsatisfying marriage undermines psychological well-being to a similar extent—and, in some cases, to a greater extent—than exiting marriage or being continually unmarried.'

Looks like a possibly interesting study. Albeit with a fairly logical conclusion.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018193/

Really, see I wonder why people bother getting married?

You can have a fantastic relationship without it, be a great parent without it, own properties without it, be successful without it. Why do certain people think that in 2022, that its still a requirement in life?
It doesn't stop a partner straying, it doesn't stop abusiveness in a relationship... if anything I believe it makes it harder to leave such situations ...literally a ball & chain.

I've been married & divorced, I tried my hardest to make that abusive marriage work ...why? Out of some stupid notion that I was a failure.
I now see the only failure I made was marrying that horrid man in the first place.

I've now met the love of my life and are very happy together as we are ...unmarried and living in sin 😀

Wrong again single women live longer and are happier than married women. The reverse is true for men.

Sometimes women want marriage but the man refuses to marry her.

And when that happens maybe she is too far along to terminate. Or maybe she doesn’t want to terminate.

You should ask men why they get women pregnant and then don’t marry them. I think it’s just a lot of men who just decide they don’t want to marry the woman because marriage is sold as something negative to men.

I've never heard any credible evidence to suggest marriage benefits men more than women. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary, however. That's why so often people don't get married because it isn't in the man's interests as much as it is in the woman's, both legally and socially.

Because it’s 2022 and there are many ways to structure your life to be financially protected and not married.

It's chicken and egg - marriage appears to encourage stability/better health in society because of the type of people who get married, not because of marriage in itself doing something magical which stops people having heart attacks or getting cancer.

There are also other studies that say that women in fact are happier and healthier when they remain single, but marriage benefits men. Perhaps it would be better if men just married one another, now they are allowed to.

Well OK, wanting the protection of the law I can agree with. But the ring and being called a wife thing - cringe.

My god, I'm so glad we weren't married when we split up!

Great posts.😊👌👏
Facts speaking loud and clear.

I would find it embarrassing to want those things, so each to their own.

Sorry quote fail - my last comment was meant to be in reply to someone asking why get married after having children.

Because of rights around death and illness? That's why we did it. We owned the house equally and both names are on the children's birth certs, but it was less of a faff to spend £120 at the registry office than to make sure we had everything lined up in case of death or illness, so we did that. Just two witnesses, no rings, no ceremony, no name changes, most people don't know we did it.

I can see both sides. You don't need to be married to have everything in place legally, but sometimes it's easier just to do that.

I think there is an element of smugness from some people though where they see marriage as an achievement rather than just a legal contract.

Suprima yes my mil’s partner had no power of attorney/nok card/hadn’t nominated a nok. Hospital staff can only go on facts before them - he’s a widower I’m his only child (mil’s just his good friend) = adult daughter was nok. A marriage certificate would have trumped the daughter.

1 ONS, Personal and economic well-being: what matters most to our life satisfaction? 15 May 2019. www.ons. gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/personalandeconomicwellbeingintheuk/ whatmattersmosttoourlifesatisfaction (accessed 3 September 2019); Robert H Shmerling, ‘The health advantages of marriage’, Harvard Health Publishing, 30 November 2016. www.health.harvard. edu/blog/the-health-advantages-of-marriage-2016113010667 (accessed 3 September 2019); Kay Hymowitz, Jason S Carroll, W Bradford Wilcox, Kelleen Kaye, Knot Yet: The benefits and costs of delayed marriage in America, National Marriage Project, 2013. nationalmarriageproject.org/wp-content/ uploads/2013/03/KnotYet-FinalForWeb.pdf (accessed 3 September 2019)

Harry Benson, ‘The Long-Term Benefits of Marriage: Evidence from the UK’, Institute for Family Studies, 30 January 2018. ifstudies.org/blog/the-long-term-benefits-of-marriage-evidencefrom-the-uk (accessed 3 September 2019)

K J Bourassa, J M Ruiz, D A Sbarra, ‘Smoking and Physical Activity Explain the Increased Mortality Risk Following Marital Separation and Divorce: Evidence From the English Longitudinal Study of Ageing’, Annals of Behavioral Medicine, Vol 53, Issue 3, March 2019, pp.255–266. doi. org/10.1093/abm/kay038 (accessed 3 September 2019)

That article is so sad. What shocked me was that they were engaged for years, so clearly at some point they believed in and wanted to get married. But they never did.