Why why why do people have kids without marriage

Working class and DH is low earner. Was a carer for 15yrs.

Not looking down my nose at anyone….

Thabj you very much for your completely inaccurate appraisal. And delightful turn of phrase…. 🙄

@Felix0204

Me: Why are so many women willing to have children with men who are deadbeat and a waste of space

You: Because low earning men are also entitled to love and a family

I am not talking about low earning men - my DH is low earning, working two jobs at times, and doing his best to move forward. I said deadbeat and waste of space ie proactively not trying to earn fa and content to sit on the brew.

My point was for MOST people marriage is worthwhile, because there is SOMETHING accumulated - low, medium and high earners - and legal protections are required in the event of death or divorce for both the spouses and children.

The only case where this wouldn’t be is if somebody is constantly on the breadline or sitting on benefits and I don’t understand how the could be attractive to anyone wanting children in the first place. Not talking about buying a yacht, I mean paying for food and sticking the heating on!

I have not read tft.

I am just wondering how a woman who has a child with someone. Is better off marrying them . If the said partner already holds the purse strings and she don't work but raises the children.

The husband will still hold the purse strings so no difference unless she gets a divorce. But that cost money which she don't have.

Maybe I am missing something here, but if someone is in a situation where they have no financial income and rely on the other surely the worse thing to do would marry them. ( who pays for this marriage, but both parties have to agree).

I am confused about this question.

Marriage whilst lovely and all that is a legal binding contract between two parties.

Often the man don't want to get married to protect his assets - I get it you have a child together it's both. But this never gets asked about the unmarried couple in which the woman works and is sahd.

I never married my sons dad, thank god. No bad between us but it would have just been another legal cost for divorce ( together 8 years).

Why didn't I marry him - quite simple he didn't step up as a partner.

I thought women voted for the right to choose there life.

Sorry if any offer is not meant I really am just very confused about how marrying your child's biological parent protects you financially.

This post raises an important question… Why are so many women willing to have children with men who are deadbeat and a waste of space - no assets and no likelihood of ever having assets….. What is the point of this? If he can’t wipe his own arse how on Earth is he supposed to provide for a family? Mystifying…. So on the premise that you reproduce with someone who is semi capable of getting a decentish job. Then marriage is important. If he is on the tills at pound stretcher or getting job seekers then it doesn’t matter.

Have you heard yourself?

We are a low earning family, my other half works as a supervisor in retail and I'm a self employed cleaner. Somebody like you wouldn't last a week working manual labour so don't you dare look down your nose at those of us that do. My OH is a fantastic father, he's very present and involved in family life which is more than can be said for alot of men in the demographic you deem to be worthy of having children.

Respectfully, fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Pompous.

Because low earning men are also entitled to love and a family ? What an awful thing to say and very gold diggerish. Would you say low earning women aren't entitled to a family ?

@Dixiechickonhols - death in service have to be written in discretionary trust so it passes outside the estate. So no one has any right to it (hence discretion) whether spouse or not. Generally they give it to whoever you say but they don’t have to nor do they have to give it to a spouse though.

I always left mine to dds even when I was with partner.

@Brefugee up to £270,000 it goes to husband on intestacy with the remainder split between children and spouse in England.

It’s all well and good that the home can pass to partner, but what happens when they die and the kids are hit with 40% inheritance tax for anything over 325 because the parents weren’t married…. I wouldn’t fancy paying 40% tax, or my children paying it. Be totally screwed. Of course people can always transfer in life but it’s a right pain in the bum by contrast…

Isn’t it the case that a married couple have tax free allowance of £650,000 ++ to pass on tax free??

“Each spouse qualifies for the existing £325,000 nil rate band, but in addition there is currently a £125,000 allowance per person on the main residence when it's passed to a direct relative. That £125,000 is set to rise by £25,000 each year, until the 2020/21 tax year when a couple will jointly be able to pass on £1m tax-free, so long as the conditions are met, one of which is that their main residence is left to close family.”

perrysaccountants.co.uk/news/iht-marriage-exemption

Basically marriage is set to be even further incentivised by the tax man from what I see there.

*Robinni · 27/04/2022 12:42
BeerLoas
Own property as joint tenants
All utilities in both names
Joint bank accounts (if you want)
Father listed on birth certificate
Ensure each other is nominated beneficiary on pension and death in service policies etc.
Cost of a basic will £20
Cost of lasting power of attorney £82

Done.

(with the exception you fall outside inheritance tax exemption - currently over £325k).
Average price of a house in the UK £274,000

Add in savings, all the assets in your home which are totted up, pension pot if there and any inheritance from deceased parents…. A lot of people are coming up over the 325k….

even married people need to be reminded to have the house as joint tenants!!*

If you jointly own the property (married or not) it automatically passes to the other person ie. bypasses inheritance tax on the property. Ditto for savings account as the other person can access it.

villagewaspbyke
Depends on scheme. Mine is set up for spouse to automatically benefit. If I wanted someone else I’d have to take steps to sort it. My point is many don’t realise they need to nominate or don’t get around to it. If I do nothing he gets it because of marriage certificate. If we are not married and I have done nothing he gets nothing if I die. I know on mumsnet the thought is of course you’d sort paperwork but that’s not my experience. I’ve given example before of man who didn’t divorce wife he briefly was with as a young man and then lived with gf for 20 years/had kids. He died at work and wife got the monies, gf nothing. I bet there’s people on this thread not 100% sure if they’ve done all the paperwork or if their partner has.

I have children and am married, I would never have given up work to be a stay at home mum without this security i wouldn't live in a home owned by a partner with my children without my name on the mortgage, however I am a privileged person that has had access to a very good education and I have always been secure financially and had family support however there are more people out there that haven't had any of those things so although you may not understand why you wouldn't get married for security there are people that can barely afford rent let alone a wedding that have children because they want them (and have every right to have and want a family) and due to social limitations may not meet someone that will support them , also some people dont believe in marriage and therefore it shouldn't be so easy for men to abandon there children financially and physically, you shouldn't only have rights if you have said a few words and have a piece of paper proving it and it is disgraceful that that is the case and many other reasons that women may not want to be married and the issue is the system not the women !

So if a spouse dies without a will, does the surviving spouse automatically inherit everything?

In the uk the spouse gets the first £270k then 50% of anything after that. Other half split between children.

thanks @Villagewaspbyke
So if a spouse dies without a will, does the surviving spouse automatically inherit everything?
I'm in Germany. AFAIK (but i am going to check this on account of my creaking great age) without a will it is 50% to surviving spouse, 50% to be divided equally between all children.

Is that a crime? Should we force abortions on women who don’t love their baby daddies? What about married people who hate each other? Are they ok to have kids?

Lol exactly. And go on about you will automatically inherit all a spouses property (you won’t), you can’t will matrimonial property away (again rubbish) and so on. Lots of marriage myths on mn.

@Dixiechickonhols - death in service benefits go to whoever you nominate. If you don’t nominate anyone, the trustees choose. Same with dc pensions. Marriage make no difference to either.

@Brefugee - in England you can disinherit spouse and children, in Scotland only in respect of certain assets. In England you have absolutely no control over who your spouse will’s their property to. Same as if you were not married.

Because despite earning less and being able to work less I already had a house albeit mortgaged and I'm not prepared to lose half of that

Possibly because a lot of pregnancies aren't planned and you can't force the father to marry you.

Believing that your partner is as invested in the relationship as you are.

Because society doesn't place value on women.

Itloggedmeoitagsin no the lump sum bereavement support payment (widows allowance) isn’t dependent on savings. It’s just a lump sum. I used example of using it to pay for funeral but it can be for anything. It’s paid no matter how high your income or savings. It’s separate to any help with funerals for those on low income.
I used it as example for how would marriage benefit me as a low earner. Obviously it’s not a huge amount and easily replicated but if your boyfriend dies in crash on way home tonight it’s money you can’t get. For a low income couple it could be a big help whilst she try’s to get more hours at work, sorts out claiming other benefits etc.

The money for the funeral is dependant on the savings etc of the deceased. I recently did this for a family member and it specifically says don't include your own money

There are definitely ways to mimic some
of the legal protections of marriage without getting married. How many couples actually jump through those legal hoops though? How many who choose not to marry have set up proper wills and medical powers of attorney before the first baby is born?

Marriage is by no means a guarantee. Your partner can still screw your over just like in any business deal. It has two particular advantages. 1) it’s the easiest and cheapest way to set up that legal and economic partnership. 2) it requires that you go through the mental step of choosing to make that partnership, it’s an extra step of vetting your potential co-parent

@Fridafever The average salary in the U.K. is about £38k. Even if that was the collective household income you would still accumulate assets - unless you have lots of kids.

My point was for the vast majority of people marriage will be important from a financial standpoint.

Also very rare that people go into minimum wage and stay there for all of life as there is sufficient motivation to want to progress.

Never said a minimum income required to reproduce - where did you get that from??

What was saying was for the vast majority of people - even on low to middle income - assets accumulate.

The only way they wouldn’t is if somebody was on job seekers their entire life or on an incredibly low wage… persistantly.

If it’s somebody like that why would anyone consider them capable of supporting a child to adulthood…. On that money they’d barely be able to support themselves.

So on the premise that you reproduce with someone who is semi capable of getting a decentish job. Then marriage is important.
If he is on the tills at pound stretcher or getting job seekers then it doesn’t matter.

How much do you think people should have to earn to reproduce? Seems a tad extreme to put a floor on it - maybe we could have a system where you need a letter from your boss to confirm income before you’re allowed to procreate. I’m married but we only have one income - I guess I’ll need to hand DS back.

@aSofaNearYou re. your thoughts on it being a Catch 22 people getting married to have children and then finding fertility problems. There are a lot of people who for religious reasons would want to be married before even adopting or going down the ivf route. Honestly next you’ll be suggesting that prior to marriage people should have a full fertility screen. Also pretty shitty that you’re saying those who are unmarried are so lucky they can just dump their defective partner at the drop of a hat and piss off with someone who is reproductively functional…. What a horrid idea.

Average price of a house in the UK £274,000

Add in savings, all the assets in your home which are totted up, pension pot if there and any inheritance from deceased parents…. A lot of people are coming up over the 325k….

even married people need to be reminded to have the house as joint tenants!!