To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

@Thoosa - Of course there are private grammars. Some grammars immediately went private as soon as the move to abolish them started. Unless you’re interpreting “grammar school” in some way other than “selective secondary open to all”.

Grammar school - state school, non-fee paying, access by passing 11+ exam

Private school - fee-paying. They may have an entrance exam, but it's not the 11+.

They are separate. And it's really important to know this. My DD's grammar mainly has girls with fairly well-off parents but there are also plenty of girls from less well-off families.

In a fee-paying school, everyone will be from a rich family, except pupils on scholarships.

This can mean that those on scholarships are bullied or feel different from the others.

@TatianaBis I said there were many factors which might or might not be relevant to a particular child. That your nephew's school has good pastoral care is great for your nephew but not really the point.

"there’s little difference between independent and good grammars academically" I am not sure how many times I can say it is more than an academic decision. I said "independent schools are a different world to state schools for many reasons"
Good state grammar schools still have 30 pupils in a class, for example.
But this is also completely irrelevant since apparently there isn't a state grammar within a 50 mile radius of the OP.

I noticed how you typed plenty of parents (plural). That is not OP though unfortunately.
Some of these comments who are stating they have paid fees are probably not a single parent to 3 trying to manage.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but there may well be a second hand uniform shop, which will be a fraction of the cost of full price. Or ask the school if any parents are willing to donate uniforms that aren’t needed for you. My dc are in private education and a good half the class are in pre-loved uniform.

I don’t really understand this idea of inferiority on the basis of wealth.

What difference does it make? People are people.

I grew up with some people who had a lot more money and some with a lot less money than me.

The idea that I would feel inferior to people because they’re rich never occurred to me.

I personally think that very bright self motivated kids often do pretty well in fairly average schools . My son went to a mix at secondary level, fee paying and state comp— he did exactly as I would have predicted- pretty well , but not amazing because he was inherently lazy when it came to doing homework in subjects he wasn’t interested in. He has however done well career wise , because the comp gave him the ability to mix well with all sorts of people and the fee paying school gave him a certain kind of confidence. I certainly wouldn’t put yourself in financial problems to send her OP .

Those saying ‘it’s not a grammar school’ - I went to a school that called itself an “independent grammar school” - basically those who lived in the areas that had a grammar system could get in for free having passed the 11+, others who passed the entrance exam either paid fees or got an assisted place. I had an assisted place so was one of the poor kids- I did very well academically but there was definitely a huge gap between the rich kids and poor kids! Tbh I think the whole experience left me with a massive inferiority complex/ ‘imposter syndrome’ for my whole life.

I’m a teacher too but I really believe that bright kids will do well in any school. I teach in a local comp- every year some of my kids get grade 9s. All the teachers do the same qualifications, it is not a ‘better’ education. The only benefit is there may be smaller classes, and a generic ‘type’ of student- there will be much lower numbers if SEND and PP kids, but I’d that a good thing? I also think local friends and a local journey to school are really important. I used to travel for over an hour to get to school and had no local friends.

I live in an area with 2-3 grammar schools close by, but chose to send my DC to the “requires improvement” local secondary. I just think selective education is divisive and inherently unfair. Grammar/ independent schools aren’t full of the cleverest kids, just the most privileged ones.

All that said, if it is what your DD really wants to do I wouldn’t stand in her way now.

Why do people always point out the fact that the child is likely to be the poor child amongst far more affluent children. There are huge gaps
In wealth within the state system too.

There will be plenty of parents just working hard to pay the school fees and prioritising their children's education at the independent school.

Your DD sounds focused and should be allowed the opportunity to attend the independent school if it is possible.

@VivX

There’s no reason to ignore the fact that some state schools have better pastoral care than private, of which my nephew’s school is one example.

It’s precisely because I’ve been to independent school that I’m aware there’s little difference between independent and good grammars academically other than funding.

Which is where we started: Your claim independents are a “world away from state schools”, and my response that grammars are actually fairly similar and some outperform private.

This is in line with my later comment that I would not have done so well at a comprehensive which are nonselective and some of which at least have anti-intellectual student cultures.

It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford

This would worry me with regards to the others.

What sort of treats would they be missing out on?

When I had my son (unexpectedly after 17yrs ttc) we planned for him to go into private education as he was an only child and we wanted to give him the best we could. When he was 3 I unexpectedly got pregnant again and I had to revise my choices because i knew that I couldn't afford to send both privately.

They are both fairly bright and did really well at our local outstanding primary school. By the time DS1 was in yr 10 he was completely over school and education in general. He coasted through A levels with little interest and, although he went to uni, he wasn't really bothered and did the bare minimum to get his degree. DS2 worked much harder and was far more focussed but could never quite gain the grades he wanted and put himself under a lot of pressure. He's now at uni as an undergraduate and is sailing through on track for a first. He never lets up, has plan A, B, C and D and has already applied to do a masters.

What I'm trying to say is that just because they are bright doesn't mean they will always be interested in education and you don't know what the outcomes will be.

I have friends whose children went to the local 'needs improvement' secondary school, had less involvement from their parents than mine, and still got 8 or 9 As or A stars.

Personally I would not send one if I wasn't absolutely certain that I could afford to send them all, regardless of whether they chose to or not. Also, cutting back on things for your two younger children so their sister can go private is a little unfair now she's already had her treats.

@TatianaBis Well, you're right, because I paraphrased and what I actually said verbatim "with a different focus than straight "academics" "
But semantics aside, and also ignoring from your relative's state school's great pastoral care (which is irrelevant), my point was that it isn't just an academic decision (or a pastoral care one)

Smaller class sizes, better facilities, more individual attention, more extracurricular activities are just some of the factors at play. Depending on the child, these might have a greater or lesser impact, of course, but these are the sorts of things that are of benefit to all children, not just "academic" children.

And it is interesting that in another post on this thread, you yourself said, having been to an independent school, "I would not have achieved the same academically at a comprehensive" - that's also true for many children including those who aren't "academic", in that they achieved more at an independent school than a comprehensive. That difference in outcome is exactly why I said what I did.

Will you be able to afford for DCs 2 and 3 to take the entrance exam? What if they are only offered a smaller bursary? Bursaries on offer will depend on the school's financial situation at the time the offer is made. DCs 2 and 3 could do equally as well but not be offered as much.

Or are you going to hope that DCs 2 and 3 don't get wind of how DC1 has been favoured?

If money is already tight and you are already driving an old car, not buying new clothes etc then you can't afford this and you were foolish to put DD1 in for the entrance exam.

I still maintain it is going to be very difficult, especially as you have now said your 3 DDs receive Pupil Premium ie you are a low income family.

Even with the best intentions (full bursary, availability of 2nd hand uniform and equipment etc) I think there are so many additional extras (meals, trips, evenings) that it would be a struggle with 1 never mind 3 children.

But you seem very determined (a characteristic your DD has learned from you it seems) so I wish you and your DDs all the best.

FWIW, my son received a bursary for his 2 years of 6th form. Between L and U 6th my financial situation became very complex. As others have said the school will do everything they can to support a student so they can remain. They've seen it all and are very discreet.

@Troisfoisfilles. See if they can offere any more help towards uniform etc

And yes check if the same is given twice.three times to same family

I get people are saying do the best for education but equally no point scrimping and struggling for the next 6/7yrs for her then another 4 on top for younger children

Was told I could be top of a bottom school

Or

Bottom of a top school

Bottom school was local 10min walk, lots of friends going

Top school was a long walk to station train journey then another walk or bus and wouldn’t have known anyone

My brother went to a top school tho brainy, but I rem him leaving early and coming home late, tired then homework

I chose bottom school and did very well there

I’m always of the belief that in a set of siblings, if one gets offered a scholarship then that opportunity should be grabbed with both hands if possible. It doesn’t really matter who gets offered. Nobody is being favoured. What if the youngest does get offered but the eldest was denied that opportunity? Should the youngest then be denied it out of fairness? Not every child gets offered a scholarship and that’s because not every child has the same potential - this applies in siblings too. You can’t expect one to be held back when they have the opportunity just out of “fairness”.

All that being said, if it’s going to be a struggle financially then that’s another spin on things. You all need to live. But, if I have 4 children and if one of them was offered a scholarship I would want to do everything I can without it majorly impacting on us. So just go through all your finances and see if there’s anything you can do.

Damned if you do/Don't. Can you afford it if fees go up by 10% pa for the next 5 yrs or through to 6th form? What happens if your others get a bursary? We looked at sending our daughter privately due to an inheritance but she would be pressured to make sure the 12k pa plus extras was being 'earned. Couldn't afford the ski trips, safaris etc

Maybe keep an eye out for French teacher job vacancies at the private school..... heavy staff discount probably!

I would mention its no fun being the poor kid in independent school. Been there. I said yanbu it's up to you.

I've done it too and it was absolutely fine. I would not have achieved the same academically at a comprehensive. I still have all my friends from school and no-one can really remember who was wealthy at school.

@kierenthecommunity

Like flip did you really think she was French

I did actually. The French spelling/accidental accent are typical French typos. I'm half French myself.

I would mention its no fun being the poor kid in independent school. Been there. I said yanbu it's up to you. If she got a good bursary and it is affordable then it's fine to prioritise education over alton towers!

Be aware fees go up every year and the cost of trips is extortionate.

Speaking as someone whose parents couldn't afford to send me on trips I have opted for selective (state) grammar and plan to let my dc go on all the trips. Easy for me because I have good free options. Around here private school is a bit pointless.

I can afford private and my dc would have been clever enough to get into one of the top independent schools in the country but we drive a normal bmw not a top of the range whatever and we holiday in Portugal and Italy but not on my friends yacht etc. We don't have a massive house. I just CBA with the oneupmanship amongst the parents and my dc feeling inferior.

I would say your school that offers 8 GCSEs is fine for doing that. My independent school did that in the 90s. As an employer I don't care how many GCSE my new hires have. I do prefer good grades. I work for a large international professional services firm. I look at A level grades. I look at work experience and internships.

If you think it will help your dd and she wants to go there and you can afford it by sacrificing luxuries AND you are going to do the same for your other dc then go for it.

Will you be able to afford it for other dc if they don't get a bursary? Cross that bridge when you come to it.