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Original poster

To send my eldest to grammar school knowing it’ll be a squeeze?

493 replies

Troisfoisfilles · 03/03/2022 22:37

So my eldest just won a place at a really good grammar school in our area to start year 7 in September which is great.
She did so well in the entrance exam and interview that she was offered a scholarship and we have been awarded a brilliant bursary. Only trouble is, the bursary doesn’t cover everything and even the transport and uniform are a huge expense! It’s going to be a massive squeeze on finances. I also have two younger children who will no doubt miss out on little treats and things that I won’t be able to afford any longer 😞.
She is very intelligent and would do well at any school but I know for a fact that she won’t achieve full potential at a state school.
I originally applied for a place for her at the school I teach at. It’s a great school and she would do ok there but I don’t want just ok for her. For a start, she’s really quite eccentric and mature for her age. Kids similar to this at my school don’t really go down that well and are singled out by the others - kids are horrid!
I really believe she needs the small classes, discipline and pushiness she’d get at a grammar.
So am I being unreasonable in sending her?

OP posts:
Original poster
Troisfoisfilles · 06/03/2022 16:27

@TatianaBis

But OP mentions having to pay for trips and lunches so presumably her private school doesn't include these things as part of the fee.

I doubt OP knows exactly as her DD hasn’t started there yet.

I can’t see where she mentions lunches, but she does mention trips.

Ime lunch and school trips that are part of the course are covered by the fees. It’s only optional extras like ski trips that are not.

No I didn’t mention either of things but to my knowledge, neither are included. But then they are not included for the school I work at either. Lunches at the private school are exactly the same as the ones at mine and the school trips at my school are certainly not cheap, so can’t see much difference. The french trip I will be running at my school will cost parents about £450 for a 4 day trip. My DD1 is aware that if I can’t afford a school trip, she won’t be able to do. She knows this and understands why and doesn’t have a problem with it. It has happened in the past at primary school where one or more of them couldn’t do a trip because things were tight.
OP posts:
TatianaBis · 06/03/2022 15:55

But OP mentions having to pay for trips and lunches so presumably her private school doesn't include these things as part of the fee.

I doubt OP knows exactly as her DD hasn’t started there yet.

I can’t see where she mentions lunches, but she does mention trips.

Ime lunch and school trips that are part of the course are covered by the fees. It’s only optional extras like ski trips that are not.

BunnyBerries · 06/03/2022 15:50

It is for the full 7 years. They do a review each year just to make sure but as long as nothing changes dramatically, the funding will remain

Maybe I'm missing something but if your salary goes up like you are banking on happening, your fees will also surely go up each year. So that won't help really. Will you be allowing your other children sit the exam and willing/able to pay if they both do not get so much bursary?

Southbucksldn · 06/03/2022 15:46

The extras are significant in my opinion, as are the school trips.
Plus I wouldn’t say that there are many normal families and those whose grandparents pay also got a house from them too.
The are expensive parties and dinners and expensive days out. Ski trips and holidays in glamorous locations.
It’s fine if your child can deal with it but this all started in year 4/5 (noticing the differences in cash) and I can only assume that it gets worse over time.

Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 15:28

But does she m know this or has she presumed as so many do

RedskyThisNight · 06/03/2022 15:15

[quote Landedonfeet]@RedskyThisNight

Pretty much all private schools include lunches as part of the fee
And ones around here - differing fee levels - all include after school clubs and care for free
And none charge for day trips

Point is - I have found very little “extras”

And all uniform is second hand
But it’s handbags at dawn when the second hand shop is replenished[/quote]
But OP mentions having to pay for trips and lunches so presumably her private school doesn't include these things as part of the fee. So it's really irrelevant what your school does or even if the majority of other schools do this.
My DC's state school also includes clubs for free if we're comparing. And that's genuinely free, not just "part of fees".
And secondary school children don't normally need "care".

Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 15:04

As I say
I’ve had both at state and primary
I constantly found the state asking for money
Money for this trip
weekly money for school lunch
Donations to this charity
£2 to where home clothes
Bring in cakes for this sale

Et
Absolute none of the above at the prep school.

Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 15:03

@CherieBabySpliffUp

Have you thought about how you will afford the cost of trips etc? Even with a discount for PP you're still talking a lot of money.
The say trips all included They even provide a packed lunch

The big abroad trip 1 trip in year 7 to France.
You’re told about it in year 5!
£265 for 3 nights all In

Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 15:01

@RedskyThisNight

Pretty much all private schools include lunches as part of the fee
And ones around here - differing fee levels - all include after school clubs and care for free
And none charge for day trips

Point is - I have found very little “extras”

And all uniform is second hand
But it’s handbags at dawn when the second hand shop is replenished

HaveringWavering · 06/03/2022 14:16

@Abraxan the point is that anyone working in education should know that the standard meaning of “grammar school” is “academically selective, free state school”. The school OP is referring to may well have “grammar” in its name but her dilemma is all about how to afford the fees. Therefore, when posting here, she needed to explain in clear terms that the school was a “grammar” in name only, but that fees were payable.

Let me explain this for you.

My dog is called Kitty. If I post on here and say “Can anyone advise me the best food to feed my pet Kitty?” I am going to get 100 recommendations for cat food because people automatically go with the standard meaning unless told otherwise, and I should know that it has to be explained.

OP could be excused from not knowing that the default meaning of “grammar” means a state school if she had had no professional involvement in educational after all, grammars are not in all counties now and her local independent school is called X Grammar- but as a teacher you’d have to be living under a rock not to know this!

Abraxan · 06/03/2022 13:43

@MadameGazelleBand

How can you work in a school and get the Grammar part wrong? You mean a private school yes?
There are several private schools which have the word Grammar in its name.
Abraxan · 06/03/2022 13:39

My experience of private schools is that the 'extras' aren't actually that much different to a local state schools.

Trips are still optional and in our experience by now means does everyone go on them all, especially things like ski trips which are in school holidays. Dd didn't have any more expensive school trips than friends at state schools nearby - Infact one of her abroad trips til place WITH two local state schools as it ensured they had the right numbers, all paid the same.

Smaller trips often came out of the fees, along with costs for extra such as materials for certain DT lessons or swim sessions etc. Lunches cost no more than the canteen at the local state school.

Uniform was dearer but there was a fully stocked and very good second hand shop which everyone used - there was no 'shame' in being seen to use it as even the most well off families did.

Check what the fees include and ask for a rough estimate of any extras. Most schools will be happy to tell you this and, in our experience, it's often easier to find out from a private school than a state school.

CherieBabySpliffUp · 06/03/2022 13:28

Have you thought about how you will afford the cost of trips etc? Even with a discount for PP you're still talking a lot of money.

RedskyThisNight · 06/03/2022 13:27

@Landedonfeet

Yes But same applies re lunches, day trips etc
Surely the fees are just higher, if they include these things though? And taking a packed lunch from home is not that expensive.
Lwren · 06/03/2022 13:24

My best friend and I attended a school entrenched with poverty and cruel kids.
She went to Cambridge.

If your child goes to this school she won't be able to attend the holidays will she?
When other kids go into school with £800 coats, will she cope?
Idk, I think if she's intelligent enough she'll succeed anywhere tbh OP

Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 13:19

And you think teachers could afford
£21k (after tax!) a year?

Namenic · 06/03/2022 13:17

I would not do private school unless I knew that I could comfortably afford it for all children. Siblings can get touchy about fairness and I would not want to risk damaging the sibling relationship - though perhaps some effect on it is inevitable (as your dd1 may also feel resentful that she cannot go).

I think you can get a lot of ‘push’ from home. I’m an immigrant and this happens with us. Your daughter has done well so far - what is to stop her going on to achieve? It will be harder than in the small class sizes of private school, but you could supplement with tutors etc and being involved with what she is learning.

Hoppinggreen · 06/03/2022 13:16

[quote Landedonfeet]@Hoppinggreen
What’s the fees?[/quote]
Around £3500 per term

Original poster
Troisfoisfilles · 06/03/2022 13:05

@GnomeDePlume

OP cannot afford this.

OP is already in old car, old clothes, old phone territory. OP is proposing to give all 3 of her DCs a cheese paring life so that just one of the DCs can go to private school.

I think OP is over reliant on her DD's maturity. She is still only 10. 10 year olds dont understand the full ramifications of decisions. 10 year olds promise all sorts. They promise they will clean out the rabbit/walk the dog/always do their homework. The reality is that they are still only 10.

Allowing a 10 year old to be responsible for hijacking the family finances is sheer folly.

Yes she is only 10 but not really a normal one. Remember I work in a secondary school full of teenagers. She is easily more mature than even most of the year 9’s. She has always been like this. She was trying to tell a joke about communism to some adults yesterday and after lots of blank looks, I had to explain to her that some adults don’t really understand what it really means. And I never said that all 3 of my children would receive a ‘cheese-paring life’ because I will send the eldest to private school. They will not want for anything that is deemed necessary or even some little treats. I explained further up what ‘a squeeze’ would mean for them all. I don’t care about a new car or a new phone or new clothes- that will come later in life for me maybe. My children are way more important than any of those things
OP posts:
Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 13:04

@Hoppinggreen
What’s the fees?

sala7 · 06/03/2022 13:00

Put her in the independent school OP. You will always regret it if you don’t.

If you’re living in a deprived, rural area, you will no doubt find that many other families at the school aren’t exactly made of money either.

It could be life changing for her. You know what you need to do!

Hoppinggreen · 06/03/2022 12:48

@Landedonfeet

* Plenty of Teacher, Solicitor, Accountant families at my DCs school.* *Many with more than one child*

Can’t be south east!
And probably grandparents paying

My childrens prep school £16k each a year
And then next school is weekly boarding £36k each

As I said, Yorkshire No GPs paying as far as I know but they wouldn’t necessarily tell me
Hoppinggreen · 06/03/2022 12:47

@RedskyThisNight

*Plenty of Teacher, Solicitor, Accountant families at my DCs school. Many with more than one child*

Are DC with 2 teacher, solicitor or accountant parents really the definition of "bog standard middle class"? Surely that puts them quite formally in something like the top 20% (I'm guessing) of household wealth in the UK?

Our local (non-London ) private school costs £1200 a month to send one child. That's £2400 for 2. Even living incredibly modestly you need a household income of 65K + to afford this. Beyond the range of "bog standard middle class" families. If you've paid off your mortgage or have help from extended family, then I agree it's possible.

Somebody said above that parents with those jobs can no longer afford Private but it’s not always the case. And in many cases both parents aren’t at this level of earnings, just one. I agree that these professions aren’t “bog standard” but they were they type of jobs that someone said meant you probably couldn’t afford Private with and it’s just not true in some areas. We are in Yorkshire though Which probably makes a huge difference in fees
Landedonfeet · 06/03/2022 12:10

Yes
But same applies re lunches, day trips etc

RedskyThisNight · 06/03/2022 12:09

@Landedonfeet

And none of the nonsense of bringing in constumes for assemblies or plays. Al provided by school
Are you thinking more of primary level? Bringing in costumes for assemblies etc isn't really something that happens at secondary school.
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