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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be concerned about the rise of antisemitism in the UK?

285 replies

hibbledibble · 27/01/2022 16:17

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447069/Terrifying-moment-Jewish-shop-owners-suffer-random-anti-Semitic-attack-London-street.html

Sorry that this is a daily mail article, but such events are common, but rarely reported on.

Antisemitism has increased at a worrying rate recently, and there seems to be little concern about this.

An example of antisemitism being tolerated, is that when footage of the above crime was posted to a local group on social media, some were saying that these men may have deserved the assault, and unpleasant comments made about Jews.

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StridTheKiller · 14/05/2024 19:17

YADNBU.

hipingpot · 14/05/2024 15:58

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

hibbledibble · 30/01/2022 19:28

Scribbling I agree the anti Israel sentiment is often routed in antisemitism. There are many conflicts around the world, and human rights abuses, that people choose to ignore.

The recent conflict was also used to justify acts of anti semitism in the UK as well.

I hate even mentioning Israel for this reason, as this should not happen. Antisemitism is never accept.

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ScribblingPixie · 30/01/2022 15:23

Another red flag for antisemitism is people who bang on and on, endlessly on, about 'human rights abuses' in Israel but never criticise other countries eg the terrible abuse of Muslims in China, Israel's neighbours in the Middle East. I had a friend who did this, and eventually I told him that he needed to ask himself why and if the answer could be antisemitism - to his credit he took it on board and changed his attitude.

woodhill · 30/01/2022 11:49

@Balaboostah

Part of the antisemitism is the CONSTANT reference to the holocaust and use of holocaust analogies and terminology to decribe the Israel-Palestine conflict. Israelis/Jews and Palestinians have been doing a lot of shitty things to one another for the best part of a century now (and, yes, Israel does have the upper hand now and bears more responsibility and is responsible for more abuses) but it has not ever reached the point of or even come close to the holocaust. There is so much else which it could be compared to but, no, always the Holocaust. So, it's Israel is committing genocide (so, hey, maybe you jews shouldn't bleat on about own genocide since you're dong the same) Or, Gaza is the same as the Warsaw Ghetto. Where the Nazis would send off transports of Jews to death camps, intentionally starved the population with children starving in the street, used slave labour, intnetionally allowed disease to spread etc. Gaza is bad, don't get me wrong, but it's not the horror of the Warsaw Ghetto. But, no, constant reference to the Warsaw Ghetto. Or some weird expectation that 'Israelis should know better than to do what they're doing to Palestinians' as though genocide is expected to make you nicer (rather than perhaps an understanding that genocide is not character building and, actually, common trauma means you might not be so tolerant of someone threatening your life) Or the 'zionazis' you seen thrown about. Or the catoons in the papers depicting Israeli solides as Nazis.

It's continuous. And it didn't happen to the Burmese with the Rohingya genoice. It didn't happen to China. It didn't happen to Russia. Only Israel gets the constant holocaust/nazi analogies. Why? Antisemitism. Pure and simple.

So for those who say 'Oh, I've never seen antisemitism in the UK' just look at posts on mumsnet when things flare up in Israel/Palestine. You'll see it there.

Yes, it's nothing like the Holocaust and the Palestinians have allies and have to bear some responsibility as well
Balaboostah · 30/01/2022 09:25

Another example.

So Gaza echoes what happened to Jews in the ghettos of Warsaw.

And the handwringing that people who have (only attempted - not actual) genocide committed against them should 'do it to others'

Again, drips with antisemitism but no one cares to point it out.

It's perfectly feasible and possible to cricize Israel for human righs abuses without constantly referencing the Holocaust, just like seems to be done for nearly every other conflict situation in the world.

To be concerned about the rise of antisemitism in the UK?
Balaboostah · 30/01/2022 09:18

Here's an example from a 2 second search on mumsnet

So, apparently, Jewish votes = money and power. And so many powerful Jewish peole who (apparently) conspire together to prevent any action against Israeli.

No one reported this comment. No one flagged it as anti semitic.

To be concerned about the rise of antisemitism in the UK?
Balaboostah · 30/01/2022 09:05

Part of the antisemitism is the CONSTANT reference to the holocaust and use of holocaust analogies and terminology to decribe the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Israelis/Jews and Palestinians have been doing a lot of shitty things to one another for the best part of a century now (and, yes, Israel does have the upper hand now and bears more responsibility and is responsible for more abuses) but it has not ever reached the point of or even come close to the holocaust. There is so much else which it could be compared to but, no, always the Holocaust.
So, it's Israel is committing genocide (so, hey, maybe you jews shouldn't bleat on about own genocide since you're dong the same)
Or, Gaza is the same as the Warsaw Ghetto. Where the Nazis would send off transports of Jews to death camps, intentionally starved the population with children starving in the street, used slave labour, intnetionally allowed disease to spread etc. Gaza is bad, don't get me wrong, but it's not the horror of the Warsaw Ghetto. But, no, constant reference to the Warsaw Ghetto.
Or some weird expectation that 'Israelis should know better than to do what they're doing to Palestinians' as though genocide is expected to make you nicer (rather than perhaps an understanding that genocide is not character building and, actually, common trauma means you might not be so tolerant of someone threatening your life)
Or the 'zionazis' you seen thrown about.
Or the catoons in the papers depicting Israeli solides as Nazis.

It's continuous. And it didn't happen to the Burmese with the Rohingya genoice. It didn't happen to China. It didn't happen to Russia. Only Israel gets the constant holocaust/nazi analogies. Why? Antisemitism. Pure and simple.

So for those who say 'Oh, I've never seen antisemitism in the UK' just look at posts on mumsnet when things flare up in Israel/Palestine. You'll see it there.

EdithStourton · 29/01/2022 17:39

For anyone interested, there are a couple of very good discussions on the topic of antisemitism on Bari Weiss's Honestly podcast (you can find it on Spotify):
'Why People Love Dead Jews' and
'An Imam Blows the Whistle on Muslim Antisemitism'

hibbledibble · 29/01/2022 14:52

@FeedMeSantiago

We were taught about the Holocaust in Y5, in 1998 so I was 9 at the time. We saw pictures of the camps and learned about Anne Frank's diary and read 'When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit' by the wonderful Judith Kerr. The school also arranged for a holocaust survivor to come into school and talk to us about his experiences. He asked us to remember how we met him and to tell people about it as he was handing the baton to us to become witnesses of the witnesses as the time would come in our lifetimes when there weren't any survivors left.

It was profoundly moving and I have never forgotten that experience. I have also had the privilege to meet two other survivors through work events.

I have had the misfortune to meet 3 holocaust deniers/minimisers. Horrifyingly the youngest two are in the same school year as me so 33/34. They are the type who say 'it's not anti-semitic to criticise Israel's policy of X' but then immediately follow that statement with anti semitic comments/statements minimising the holocaust.

Everyone should be taught about the holocaust. The rise of antisemitism worries me deeply.

Unfortunately, my children did not know it was Holocaust memorial Day last week. My eldest, in year 6, had not been taught about it at all in school, at any point. She only knows from her own reading, and our family discussions. Sadly many children aren't currently being educated.
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FeedMeSantiago · 29/01/2022 10:30

We were taught about the Holocaust in Y5, in 1998 so I was 9 at the time. We saw pictures of the camps and learned about Anne Frank's diary and read 'When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit' by the wonderful Judith Kerr. The school also arranged for a holocaust survivor to come into school and talk to us about his experiences. He asked us to remember how we met him and to tell people about it as he was handing the baton to us to become witnesses of the witnesses as the time would come in our lifetimes when there weren't any survivors left.

It was profoundly moving and I have never forgotten that experience. I have also had the privilege to meet two other survivors through work events.

I have had the misfortune to meet 3 holocaust deniers/minimisers. Horrifyingly the youngest two are in the same school year as me so 33/34. They are the type who say 'it's not anti-semitic to criticise Israel's policy of X' but then immediately follow that statement with anti semitic comments/statements minimising the holocaust.

Everyone should be taught about the holocaust. The rise of antisemitism worries me deeply.

Otherpeoplesteens · 29/01/2022 10:04

@parkstrife

As far as I'm aware (anyone, please correct me) the Holocaust is on the National Curriculum in England and must be taught in the first three years of secondary school, although it is usually taught in Y9. In the devolved administrations I understand that it is not compulsory, but is taught anyway in nearly all schools.

The government also funds the Lessons from Auschwitz project through the Holocaust Educational Trust, which (pre-pandemic, at least) sends two pupils from each school to Auschwitz every year.

What is disappointing though is that Holocaust denial is not criminalised in the UK, unlike nearly everywhere else in Europe. There was an attempt about 20 years ago to legislate against it at an EU level but full implementation was blocked... by the UK.

MargaretThursday · 29/01/2022 09:32

@parkstrife

I don't think it's the reason, it just emboldens some people to make their opinions more visible. They feel like it's more acceptable to say it out loud. I'm sorry about your friends.
I agree. It means people who are racist, but don't like to admit that can say: "I'm not racist... but Israel" and have their views not just validated but feel like they're making a moral issue.
parkstrife · 28/01/2022 21:23

I don't think it's the reason, it just emboldens some people to make their opinions more visible. They feel like it's more acceptable to say it out loud. I'm sorry about your friends.

AnakinthePadawhine · 28/01/2022 20:42

There is a rise of antisemitism. It never left, but now it is getting worst.
And it was not the harassment and threats from tory/right-wingers people that drove my friends to leave France and go to Israel. Don't kid yourself.

parkstrife · 28/01/2022 20:11

I'm horrified by the rise in anti-semitism. It feels like racism in any form has become more acceptable since Brexit. It has always been there but it's coming out of the woodwork now.

@MissVictoriaPlum There's an initiative called the Forever Project to capture the memories of the Holocaust survivors to help teach future generations so we never forget what happened.

www.holocaust.org.uk/foreverproject1

Is the Holocaust taught in schools now? I remember learning about WW2 in the 90s, it is such an important part of history. How can we prevent it happening again, if no one remembers?

TheGratefulBread · 28/01/2022 19:40

White Jews are only conditionally white. We're white until certain groups find out we're Jewish. Then we're not the right kind of white. After all, we're usually target no 1 for white supremacists, so we can't be that white.

White Jews are white enough for the far left to try and paint us privileged, and downplay the bigotry towards us (forgetting that the Holocaust is still living history), but not white enough for the far right white supremacists.

Sashimimimi · 28/01/2022 18:03

Even the UK and the US shut their borders tight to Jewish refugees, with Britain even blocking refugees to mandatory Palesitne. The world didn't care.

This is so true. We congratulate ourselves on saving the kids who came here through the kindertransport and it IS wonderful that those children’s lives were saved but it also feels very wrong that we couldn’t also make space for their parents.

Needacuppanow · 28/01/2022 17:31

I'm late, but would also like to add my support. I lit my candles last night and read and reflected.
It's so important it's never forgotten.

Needacuppanow · 28/01/2022 17:29

@MissVictoriaPlum people like your grandma are amazing and admirable.
I have never listened to someone speak (like the lady I did at the museum) where I wanted to listen to her all day. I dont idolise people but I had so much admiration for her.
She donated her doll 'Susie' to the museum. It was the only toy she was allowed to pack on the kindertransport. She was 6 years old.
I dont want to upset you but she told me a story about anti-semitism in her class as a little girl. I held back tears and as a teacher, I couldn't imagine someone being so wicked. It's the subtlety of it that was and is so dangerous.
I hope your grandma is able to live in peace. Its the absolute least she deserves.

sunshinesupermum · 28/01/2022 16:47

Not read every comment but I would like to point out that Jews come in every shade from white, black, brown etc. But many POC as well as white people see Jews as only being white. That is what made me particularly angry about the article in yesterday's Guardian. Holocaust Memorial Day commemorates the wiping out of complete families and communities the extermination before the gas chambers came into use because the killing of Jews wasn't happening fast enough.
Meanwhile many thanks to those MNs on here who aren't Jewish but are willing to learn and support us now. Please keep on educating your children. That is how you can help keep the worst of antisemitism at bay.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/01/2022 16:06

I also really, really hate the way that Jews feel obliged to denounce the state of Israel as if doing so is the only way their existence can be tolerated. Anyone who expects Muslims to apologise for Islamist terrorism is rightly immediately called out, but the same rules don’t apply

I expect that's what a PP meant about the "pernicious hierarchy of racism" that's becoming so fashionable, and explains the lack of outcry over Rashford

Overall, though, I'm just surprised the thread's attracted so many posts; generally few care enough to contribute on this subject

MmeSosostris · 28/01/2022 15:48

@BayesBlues

That is what I meant. Perhaps I didn’t explain it well but I meant that even though the Jewish people were the target, they have never forgotten the other victims of that time.

Mynameisnew · 28/01/2022 15:36

Do people think it's OK to be anti semitic, because Jews are most usually white? It has always been wrong to be racist against not white people. Now it is actually unfashionable too.

This loudly spoken outrage and rejection hasn't happened with anti semitism. Or rather, it did, but 70 odd years ago. I can't believe we have to re-educate every generation. But it needs to be done.

Ikeasucks · 28/01/2022 15:21

@RunningInTheWind

Stand by for the “I’m not anti Semitic- I just hate Israel” ad nauseum.

I’m Jewish too and agree, it’s the last form of acceptable racism. “Because Israel”. Hmm

Is part of the issue on anti semitism that many people will completely focus on only ever criticising Israel while completely absolving Palestinians of any wrong doing and responsibility