Partner unhappy with botox & more

@DrSbaitso Again, you’ve put your own views in here (“minor and morally neutral”). Sound like OP’s partner doesn’t share your views.

The fact is, OP gets to choose what to do with her face, the partner gets to choose whether to stay with her. Given the partner’s strength of feeling, it sounds as if that won’t be an easy choice. That’s why she’s upset. If you just want to say that you think she’s wrong, knock yourself out.

Her reaction would have me running a mile.. Botox and teeth whitening would not!

I was in a cafe last summer and behind me was a woman with very obvious plastic surgery - I mentioned it to my brother who I was with when she went to the toilet but I felt bad afterwards about having spoken about her, because, if she was happy, what did it matter to me? And I made a mental note not to judge in the future whether in my mind or outwardly.

[quote TatianaBis]@5218

Well thank goodness you're on on the case! The last thing we want is for women to think they look better and have more self confidence, when there are people like yourself having a problem because they look worse.

I’m all for self-confidence in women. But one of the reason women tend to lack confidence is because they are inculcated that confidence, value and self worth are linked to appearance.

Real self confidence does not derive from appearance or from beliefs around what you think you have improved in it. Self confidence that hinges on appearance is very fragile.[/quote]
@TatianaBis - you say that re real self confidence doesn't derive from appearance or if it hinges on appearance is very fragile - I actually disagree with you here.

If you think you look good - whether it's with friends, at work, then I find you tend to perform better.

I'm the classic ugly duckling into swan syndrome - had glasses up until 12 when I found I didn't need them, or for only reading and TV. I was teased for wearing glasses and yes this did impact on my self confidence a lot, I was shy and had a couple of close friends. Once I didn't wear glasses, yes I got more attention from both boys and girls and I gradually gained self confidence, but it took a lot of time.

I recall a lot when I was younger, getting jobs based on my appearance (which was then, very pretty). Naturally that improved my self confidence. As I've aged, naturally my attractiveness has waned a bit and I don't place a lot of importance on it compared to in the past but I still make an effort with my appearance to look good.

I've known women in the past tell me, "I'm a plain Jane", "I don't make much effort in my appearance" so they either create self confidence based on their character and skills or they don't. One ex-boss of mine who was actually attractive (but she didn't think she was) was quite bitter about this and cattily said to me "we can't all be oil paintings can we, Gonna?!". I wasn't acting like I loved myself in any way, just normally and had gained real self confidence, in my early 20s.

Value for women and self worth is in my mind sort of linked to appearance but it's a fine line. You have to value yourself and know how much you're worth as a person, e.g. as a friend etc and generally these both aren't linked to your looks.

For the partner here, it sounds like a genuine issue of values and of seeing OP in a different light. I can see why that would be very upsetting.

I can't. Your values as a human depend on how you treat others and make them feel, not what personal aesthetic you like on yourself. If your values include crying at your partner over some minor and morally neutral cosmetic procedure, or indeed berating women and attempting to make them feel ugly or amoral because of a procedure that's less than a cut and colour, it's not everyone else who should be reconsidering their humanity.

It's easier to prevent than cure and all that.

Im not disputing the industries intent to capitalise. Just stating the rather obvious fact of prevention Vs cure. Pipe down now.

@OnlyAFleshWound the UK standard for fillers is abysmal - it’s very much the horrible fake love island look. It is possible to do these things in a subtle way.

TatianaBis Who cares if you have a problem with it?! 🤣 I don’t think any woman would really care whether you have noticed it or not. I mean, so what if the changes are noticeable?
OP wants it for herself, it is really is irreverent whether you or her partner or anyone else has a problem with it

I will say that I know a couple of people IRL whose "work" is rather obvious, Botox and/or fillers. I'm guessing it wasn't well done, or perhaps overdone. One set of fillers is particularly awful, you can literally see the shape of them in her cheeks!

To be honest with you op some women that have had Botox, lip fillers etc look absolutely hideous and men piss themselves laughing at them. Not just men of course.

That said, you do what you want.

I agree she's being over-dramatic, you're not considering major plastic surgery, just a few cosmetic enhancements. I personally haven't used Botox (I'm 47) as I'm quite lucky wrinkles-wise, I have regular facials instead. I may change my mind if my forehead gets very lined, but I doubt it.

As for teeth whitening, I don't think it's a big deal at all. I only use the whitening strips at present but may have it done professionally at some point. Now, if my DH went for some of those veneers that are practically blinding, I might have an opinion, because they look really weird, IMO.

Occasionally one of them will confide in me that they've had botox or fillers and I always act shocked and say I couldn't tell.

Because that's what people do. Similar to how people express shock and surprise when someone says they are overweight or obese "by BMI".

The only socially acceptable response is to feign amazement. You do realise that, right?

Relative of mine who teaches drama says yes she can tell students with Botox (she's had it too, in her 30's) as there's less expression. But, she says, students ask her on the side too, what should they do - e.g. they're worried about aging but want to show expression?

[quote TatianaBis]@5218

Well thank goodness you're on on the case! The last thing we want is for women to think they look better and have more self confidence, when there are people like yourself having a problem because they look worse.

I’m all for self-confidence in women. But one of the reason women tend to lack confidence is because they are inculcated that confidence, value and self worth are linked to appearance.

Real self confidence does not derive from appearance or from beliefs around what you think you have improved in it. Self confidence that hinges on appearance is very fragile.[/quote]
Thats not what you said though. You said women thought they looked better, when they actually looked worse. You have have taken note of women's appearances and made an aesthetic judgement about it. You can't have it both ways. If you think women should not be seen in terms of their appearance, then why are you colluding with that by criticising women who have botox on the basis of their appearance?

@Butchyrestingface No idea what that’s supposed to mean. It’s hardly news that not everyone is keen on Botox.

I have no view either way- not my face, not my relationship. But it’s not outlandish to suggest that the reason the partner is upset is because she finds the idea genuinely upsetting.

That’s one way of looking at things but not the only one. For the partner here, it sounds like a genuine issue of values and of seeing OP in a different light. I can see why that would be very upsetting.

I'm sure the partner will be relieved to find she has at least one kindred spirit in nearly 8 billion.

I'm not a fan of Botox, nor have I had my teeth whitened, but her reaction sounds quite extreme to me! Crying? I'd want to know what's behind this ott reaction, if I were you. Ultimately, it's your decision. Why does she care so strongly?

@5218

Well thank goodness you're on on the case! The last thing we want is for women to think they look better and have more self confidence, when there are people like yourself having a problem because they look worse.

I’m all for self-confidence in women. But one of the reason women tend to lack confidence is because they are inculcated that confidence, value and self worth are linked to appearance.

Real self confidence does not derive from appearance or from beliefs around what you think you have improved in it. Self confidence that hinges on appearance is very fragile.

When I mentioned that my sister and I had discussed getting Botox to our foreheads, and foreheads only, she said she doesn’t want to be with someone who has Botox or anything to do with altering the way I look - inc Invisalign and whitening of teeth. She cried a lot and said she’s only attracted to people who aren’t self conscious about their looks.

I'd be inclined to tell her the Good Ship Fuck Off You Fanny is currently boarding and there's a one-way ticket with her name on it. 🚢

This is only the beginning.

There's no more moral value in Botox than a balayage.

I would not like to be with someone, who is always crying for some reason or other. its so ridiculous.

She's crying at the clash of values, not at the procedure itself. Botox is political: hundreds of thousands of women getting injected with stuff...for what end?

Agree with @Thirtytimesround.