Work hard now to pay off your mortgage by 30, and retire by 40

@Whatayear81 the point wasn't whether people should or should not have sofas or gardens or TVs. The whole early retirement movement was counter cultural in a way, it was telling people you didn't need to do things that were well established practices and doing that would save you significant money so that you could retire earlier. If you look at some of the advice given by people like mr money mustache , he told people to stop paying for TV. He calculated how much it cost to live faraway from work and fuel costs- he advocated living as close to work as possible. Living in urban areas usually means living in apartments esp if you are trying to save money in the first place. As a FTB with 400k budget, I would have a flat with communal garden if I lived near work. The lack of sofa I think is linked to the fact I don't pay for TV and try to keep my apartment as minimalist as I can (with 2 people WFH and in need of WFH set up ).

I am not subscribed to FIRE but I do try to keep my basic costs low. As it's easier for me to cut out discretionary one off consumer purchases than if I had high ongoing fixed expenses I.e. car, bigger house to heat.

A sofa and a garden…. Are very different things

You don’t have children do you @onlychildhamster?

@RampantIvy that's great for you! But I have seen so many threads here - where people are askinf- should I buy the house with bigger garden? Would DC really need it? And the advice is always to go for the bigger garden. If everyone treated everything in life like that, it's no surprise we would never have enough money.

Whenever I tell DH, oh people on Mumsnet say you need a garden for kids (but 95% of people in my home country never had one), or oh people on mumsnet said you absolutely need a sofa! He looked at me and went- so you want a house with garden/sofa cos someone online said you should have it? He has a point...

@RampantIvy

Agreed
It was a bizarre example
If society was telling me it was a terrible idea to have a garden
I’d still get one
Society pressures had sweet FA to do with it

I am thinking back to my 20/30s and yeah I suspect I never thought about early retirement and would have been disparaging about it.

Thank god though I paid into a pension from age 16 because now late 40s I am now at the state of life where paid employment is to pay the bills until I have enough to have a decent early retirement. I even like my job but I also don't want to work until I die or am no longer healthy.

Society believes you need a house with garden for a child

What rubbish. I wanted a garden so that I could have my own private outside space, and yes it is good for children.

Pottering about in the garden is good for my mental health. I can line dry washing in good weather, have a barbecue and just generally enjoy being outdoors on my own or with my family.

@Whatayear81 it's interesting as I'm in my early 50s and we hardly ever discuss work in any of my social groups. Maybe a few sentences in passing, but that's the height of it and most of us have career type jobs.

@rookiemere

I’m not in my twenties
I’m in my forties
All my friend and peers have careers
We get together and alongside family, holidays, health etc, we talk a lot about work - projects, issues, challenges, successes etc.

I would feel very odd to be on the outside of these discussions in my 40s

In my 60s… I imagine that more peers in same boat so no issue

I agree @Stuffin , I also suspect many of those pushing the "gosh what do they do all day, it must be boring at dinner parties with them" are younger and can't imagine reaching an age where your criteria for self fulfilment is very different from what it was in your 20s.

I'm just so grateful that at least I will get to retire at 60. I may well do some side line thing when the time comes, but it will be my choice and of my choosing. I doubt I'll be going to many dinner parties but if I do I'll talk about that and volunteering at parkrun and hopefully looking after a DGC some of the time.

Work is really only a very small part of who I am. Unfortunately it's the part that pays the bills.

* Society believes you need a house with garden for a child *
An odd example
Foreign holiday / fancy car…. Yes I could see your point

An outside space that is exclusively for your family use when you have children. A place that they can be out there alone. Sometimes for hours and hours on end. Free, healthy etc- as I say, no society pressure here. As a parent - I could see the inherent abs true value of it for my children

I am a bit confused about the assumption that most people don't want to retire early as they would be bored and have nothing to occupy their time etc.

On this site alone there are many posts about people being a SAHP and never go back to work even when they are not looking after their children. Aren't they effectively 'retired'? No one assumes they must be bored out of their brains for many many years simply because they stopped working and never return rather than use the word 'retired'.

If early retirement isn't for you that is a perfectly good choice but I know in RL a lot of people who are planning and looking forward to retirement early 50s so older than the original post but still gives them hopefully many years of pursuing all the things they want to do that work gets in the way of. And I include myself in that.

@Whatayear81 we have a sofa dining bench- made Flynn dining bench and a dining table in our reception. We don't have a TV (or a TV licence) so we are usually at our desks using the computer/laptop or in bed. We might watch something on the projector while eating dinner but usually stop watching once dinner is done. I don't think it's money saving at all; I mean I am looking at a leather dining bench for the other side of the table which would be £££ but just an illustration of how we buy for our needs rather than what everyone else has. I mean 97% of the UK has TVs but we don't buy one just because everyone else has one!

I do think peer pressure is responsible for a lot of spending. Society believes you need a house with garden for a child so a lot of people move out to the sticks to get one (despite high commuting fares and the need for 2 cars) which make the overall cost more expensive than living centrally in a smaller space. I calculated it would be cheaper to buy a flat in London zone 3 and when we need more space, we would just upgrade to another flat so we can continue to live car free and not pay rail season tickets.

I wouldn't call myself frugal in the least but for me it's obvious that you should only buy things if you really need it or really value them. If you are 50/50 about something, then surely it's better not to spend the money?

Your dh doesn’t see the point of a sofa?

www.mrmoneymustache.com/2019/11/18/pizza-delivery-is-for-millionaires/

But yeah if you want to retire in your 40s, you probably need this mindset.. I think the author earned a pretty good salary in corporate America too so this applies even more if you are on an average job in the UK or even worse a higher rate taxpayer in the SE...

@Whatayear81 I am guessing though the FIRE movement would attract people like my DH who just don't enjoy spending money on the whole! And all those articles are written by and for people like that..I mean my DH doesn't see the point of a TV, a car, a sofa or sky TV. We don't have any of those things...it's probably why we can even afford to overpay our mortgage by £1k despite me going out to eat fairly regularly and buying department store makeup(though I am trying to cut back on going out now). I think DH could definitely do FIRE,no problem, if he wasn't married. Apologies to the previous poster if this is a generalization but a lot of the FIRE people seem to be single men who don't like spending money in the first place. Like my DH, Mr money mustache who retired in his early 30s believes that no one short of a multimillionaire should order pizza and believes that his own homemade pizza is superior to one made in a real pizza oven. His wife doesn't wear makeup and makes her own skincare! Of course for such people, FIRE is a great idea!

* Why do people assume that to enjoy youth or ‘make the most’ of your 20s and 30’s involves spending a shit ton of money?*

We are each talking about our own experiences rather than assumptions

I wanted to socialise, dinners and brunches with friends, indulgent spa days with my sister, spontaneous weekends away with my best friend, cocktails and a bite to eat after work with my close colleagues. and lots of travel with my boyfriend of the time - all that involved money. Fair bit actually. Loved every minute of it

@Sweetchocolatecandy I have lived in 2 other countries and I must say that UK is the one country where it is much harder to make social connections if you don't spend money. All the suggestions for making friends- get a hobby, join the gym cost money. Well unless you join a running group, most hobbies require money! It's why when I was saving for a deposit on my flat, I became religious and joined a synagogue cos the free activities seemed quite good value and people were friendly. But religion is obviously not everyone's cup of tea. Of course it may be different outside London but i don't really see it. My DH's mum couldn't afford school trips for him as a child, they were very expensive and she had 4 kids. He felt socially excluded as a result. She is also foreign and didn't understand why you had to pay for school trips; I mean, I know in my home country,you have an education savings account that the government deposits money into and you usually pay using that. Most Mumsnetters want to pay for their kids school trips and their hobbies and dinner parties with friends, that possibly pushes up their expenses even if they are frugal in other ways.

Social connections is a human need. In other countries, they have community centers with subsidized activities.

Why do people assume that to enjoy youth or ‘make the most’ of your 20s and 30’s involves spending a shit ton of money? I have always lived quite frugally and actually enjoy it so I don’t feel like I’ve somehow deprived myself for not buying the latest designer clothes or wasting all my money on expensive nights out, holidays etc.

I am also part of the FIRE (financial independence retire early) community and I’ve yet to speak to a person who has retired early and regretted it- I would bet that there are a lot more people slogging away in jobs they hate in their 50’s and 60’s wishing they had been a bit more financially savvy in their younger years though.

@PurpleRainlnTheSky if i overpaid at the same rate I am overpaying, I could pay off my mortgage in full by age 40. Its a 2 bed flat in London and if i had a baby at 34/35, then baby would only be 6 when I am 40 (and plenty of small london DC are in 2 bed flats).. I could then move to somewhere significantly cheaper esp if I don't need to worry about jobs and of course no need for childcare if I am not working.

But it is not the life I want to lead. And also probably wouldn't work out that way cos I think the gap between london and desirable places in the north will probably close up a bit in the next 10 years.

@PurpleRainlnTheSky

Whilst most people wouldn’t be able to retire early and survive on early retirement until their death (especially now that living to 100 years old has become fairly common) there are other ways people could have done that.

My grand-father (just turned 70) retired at 50 or even just a bit before (I was too young to recall but I do know I have almost exclusively known him as a retiree and that he was retired by the time he was early 50’s). He was working-class, working in a factory not making much but worked there for many years when the whole asbestos scandal happened and because he had been directly exposed to it for many many years he got a massive (unsure of the sum but big) settlement. With it he paid off his mortgage, immediately retired and bought another investment property. I have no clue how he is maintaining himself honestly but I do know that he is not broke and whilst not rich either he is living really comfortably, regularly updates both his house and car(s) and do at least 2-3 international trips a year. He just lost both of his parents (my great-grandparents) in the last 3 years so now probably inherited another sum that will help carry him over but he doesn’t seem to be worried about affording his potentially 30 years of life left.

So of course in this case it’s not necessarily (or really) hard work that made him retire early or become mortgage-free but I guess there are other life events that aren’t directly linked to privileges or luck that might lead to an earlier retirement + being mortgage free. Albeit rare.

I couldn’t imagine wanting to be retired in my 40’s or even early 50’s and stay retired for potentially half of my life but to be honest my grandpa is and has always been extremely involved in his community (he was born and raised and still live in the village he currently live in) and so does quite a lot of activities and volunteering and is always helping his kids or grandkids with odd jobs and repairs around the house and is physically active (he cycles) so I do think he feels quite purposeful and fulfilled and I must say that whilst I have never really seen him work I have also never seen him bored or inactive so some people can probably find true joy in early retirement and actually manage to not be bored.

(Though that definitely has me curious as to whether or not he was ever worried to not be able to afford his retirement)

Fact is, the vast VAST majority of people could not pay off their mortgage by 35-40. No WAY. And like hell could they retire at 40. Even if they DID pay off their mortgage by 40, what the fuck are they going to live on til they're nearly 70? And I don't, for a fleeting moment, buy the 'I will live on

I think there are some people on here who are vastly underestimating the return they will get on their savings, investments whatever esp if they are about 40 and have only had x numbers of years to accrue it .

100% agree with this. ^ It's a load of tosh. Much of what a few posters have said doesn't even add up or make a scrap of sense.. They must think some people came down with the last rain shower, if they think we believe some of the nonsensical garbage they've been coming out with.

And as a fews pp have said, who the fuck WANTS to retire at 40 anyway? Even if WAS possible - which it isn't, unless you have a substantial inheritance, or a lottery win, OR you are a famous or rich actor/musician/writer/sports star, or a hugely successful business person whose business had made 10s of millions of £££. (None of which applies to anyone on this thread.)

I believe some people have paid off their mortgage by 44-45, as I do know a few people who have. (No-one has EVER paid it by their early 30s as a few are claiming though.)

Even so, the ones who paid it off by 44-45 y.o. had small mortgages that they took out in the mid to late 1990s or earlier (and the mortgage was usually £40K to 45K or less,) and they were usually small/modest properties, like a small 2 bed flat or 2 bed house, or an ex council house that they got on right-to-buy, and they never moved up the property ladder, they stayed where they were. None of the homes were big expensive properties, and they're all, as I said, people who bought before the year 2000.

Fact is, the vast VAST majority of people could not pay off their mortgage by 35-40. No WAY. And like hell could they retire at 40. Even if they DID pay off their mortgage by 40, what the fuck are they going to live on til they're nearly 70? And I don't, for a fleeting moment, buy the 'I will live on my investments and cash in my private pensions' poppycock.

It just doesn't happen, and it won't happen ...