To be ashamed of our Sleazebag PM?

I look forward to your explanation as to exactly which rule Cox broke by voting in the Commons

The parliamentary rules are crap and need changing. Alas school run duties preventing my further clarification on that atm.

What if we all just shrugged our shoulders and ignored everything going on at the present

Well exactly. Then the Tories would decamp en masse to the BVI and only the constituents able to afford the plane fare would get to see their MP.

As for your third point, I misunderstood where he was but please tell me how rushing out of a meeting to vote and rushing back is a breach of the rules. The point of the division bell is it allows MPs who are not present in the Commons to get there and vote. It rings in some pubs near the Houses of Parliament for this very reason. I look forward to your explanation as to exactly which rule Cox broke by voting in the Commons.

Seconded.

Great post Church

The problem is, MN is not representative of the UK.
You will gets endless posters on here, agreeing with you and trying to outdo each other on how much they hate the Tories, are in real lifeashamed of our Government, sorry for people they consider to have been shafted by the Tories etc etc etc.
In real life, things are a lot more nuanced and lots of the issues considered very important on MN hardly raise an eyebrow.
The Tories were voted in last time and they will be voted in again, until Labour have a credible offering that people can relate to, not just spend all their time (over) reacting, finger-pointing and name calling.
Actually setting out what they would actually do in a given situation instead of just going on about how awful the Tories are and evading questions woykd be a good start.

Excuse me for responding to a page 1 post at this late stage but it came up while I was flipping the thread and I think it's an important point. Please just scroll past if you feel it's not, I am not trying to start an argument!!

People keep saying how MN isn't representative of the UK. Why? It apparently gets 7 million unique users per month. The UK has about 5 million families with 1-2 children. That's a lot of people. I know there will be many bots/trolls/fakes/duplicate accounts (anyone know where I can get stats on that, out of interest?)

I find that the posts are also very diverse, from parents, singles, retired people, lots of different backgrounds and diverging views. Is it just me?

www.statista.com/statistics/961002/households-in-the-united-kingdom-uk-by-type/

As a further response to the point made by the pp, I think people aren't just overreacting and name calling. I think they are now very aware of a scourge - political corruption - that previously was brushed under the carpet. As with any other societal outrage, the first stage to getting rid of it is to acknowledge it exists and raise awareness, surely. So if we need 1000 threads for the next few months basically saying Boris is a twat and we hate him, then so be it. First step in the process. Needs to stay top of the agenda.

I agree too. It's weak and pathetic. What if we all just shrugged our shoulders and ignored everything going on at the present.

Cox has released a statement, confirms he was in his Commons office.

Link in tweet twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1458396418142609415?s=21

I agree that, if proven, that is a breach of the rules

It has been proven. There is footage. I watched it this morning.

I'm sure journalists will be digging to see what else they can find

I do hope so.

I'm aware that the bell refers to voting in the Commons. Given the way the Commons has been operating, Cox was able to vote whilst abroad. That was not a breach of the rules

Yes it was. He was in London holding a long meeting with BVI personnel. Had to physically rush out to vote, and come back.
Unless you can prove otherwise?

Video here

twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1458382702919491586?s=21

[quote Roussette]@prh47bridge

Bearing in mind Cox's activities are being investigated on all sorts of fronts I think you saying he has not broken any rules, is not true.

He has been referred to the Standards Commission as he undertook some of this work from his parliamentary office which is a breach of the rules.

In footage uploaded online of a British Virgin Islands commission of inquiry hearing on 14 September, Sir Geoffrey can be heard telling the commissioner: “Forgive my absence during some of the morning - I’m afraid the bell went off.”

The bell is when a vote takes place in the House.[/quote]
The possibility that he had used his parliamentary office hadn't been raised (or at least, I hadn't seen it) when I posted. I agree that, if proven, that is a breach of the rules. That appears to be the only current investigation, although I'm sure journalists will be digging to see what else they can find. The investigation by the parliamentary authorities could, of course, broaden if more possible breaches are discovered, but the original story was just about him working in BVI and being very highly paid for it, which is not against the rules provided it is properly declared, which it was.

I'm aware that the bell refers to voting in the Commons. Given the way the Commons has been operating, Cox was able to vote whilst abroad. That was not a breach of the rules. MPs can currently vote from any location - they don't have to physically walk through the voting lobbies as was the case pre-pandemic. There has never been a requirement that MPs listen to the debate before voting. So that footage doesn't show him breaking any rules. It shows him prioritising voting in the Commons over his outside job.

Corruption? Undue influence? How many of these 2nd jobbers would hold those positions if they were not MPs? I think that answers any questions we may have. And the answer is Very Few.

If Cox was using his position as an MP to enrich himself or benefit his business associates by influencing the government, that would be corruption Actually no, that would be influence peddling, which is another game popular among Tory MPs.

Having a second job which pays a high salary is not corruption. It is just not that simple. It depends on the second job and how it was obtained.

We can call it dereliction of duty and be generous, then. How has Cox properly fulfilled his duty to his constituents by buggering off to the BVI for months (to advise their government on - wait for it - defending themselves against corruption charges). At least he is admirably qualified for that role.

The fact is that people like Cox and other rich, white (primarily, not exclusively) men do play by their own rules, as they have invented MP Duty no. 4.

MPs have 3 duties: to the national interest, constituents and then their party, in that order. Not only do many moonlighting Tory MPs put interest no. 3 above no. 2 at every available opportunity in order to secure their own positions and bootlick, but they have also invented MP Duty no. 4: to act in their own personal financial interest while completely ignoring their constituents, about whom they care nothing.

These people may think themselves above the law, but like everyone else they have a 24-hour day, and it's just not possible to give equal commitment to multiple demanding jobs at high levels and perform them all equally well. Rest assured that Cox's priority on any given day during that BVI job was not to listen to Aggrieved from Torridge at an MP surgery. Here's what his constituents think:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/geoffrey-cox-caribbean-second-job-bideford-b1954338.html?r=66454

"Dereliction of duty is a person's purposeful or accidental failure to perform an obligation without a valid excuse, especially an obligation attached to his or her job".

The Guardian lying again, is it?
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/09/sir-geoffrey-cox-the-infatigueable-rides-to-the-defence-of-tax-haven-against-uk-foreign-office

Yes, exactly ! But, we also 'get what we deserve' too. SO many folk have an 'I'm alright Jack's mentality about others less fortunate. This has been whipped up by the media for decades now. Add the lazy islolationist blame game we play with Europe, a dollop of racism / a country that romanticisrs its Imperial past AND a global Pandemic and you have a perfect storm.

You can feel angry, but if you didn't vote for the Conservatives in the last election, there's no need to feel embarrassed.

If you did, however...

@TrishM80 , I am pained to say that I agree. Pained because I don’t often call people that.

But on a personal level I find the way he treated his ex wife (cheated multiple times and left when she had cancer) was despicable. I have tried to ignore that and focus on his politics.

But I find the whole expenses thing so distasteful. These are so hard times and so many people are suffering. I was buying dinner at Tesco last night and (sorry for being so silly) the price of broccoli and butter have just shot through the roof. As has the price of petrol. The fact that he tried to get the tax payer to pay for some ridiculous wall paper really does my head in.

Johnson is an utter, utter scumbag.

I am just fed up with all politicians. They all lie, are rude and awful. But I have to admit, this sleaze scandal is a new low.

Fed up with the narrative the opposition are nowhere to be seen

This is a very strange story we keep telling each other and ourselves.

Because they might be on it now, but it's too late. KS should have hit the ground running when he got elected and used all the considerable ammunition he had at his disposal. He didn't, he's a damp squib.

@prh47bridge

Bearing in mind Cox's activities are being investigated on all sorts of fronts I think you saying he has not broken any rules, is not true.

He has been referred to the Standards Commission as he undertook some of this work from his parliamentary office which is a breach of the rules.

In footage uploaded online of a British Virgin Islands commission of inquiry hearing on 14 September, Sir Geoffrey can be heard telling the commissioner: “Forgive my absence during some of the morning - I’m afraid the bell went off.”

The bell is when a vote takes place in the House.

Corrupt as hell.

Embarrassed yes, not ashamed as I didn’t vote conservative at the last election.

Fed up with the narrative the opposition are nowhere to be seen

This is a very strange story we keep telling each other and ourselves.