When does 'overcrowded' become a safeguarding issue?

“Could never give a straight answer” is a phrase that can suggest obfuscation or ignorance. Do you mean that, or do you mean that - as on this thread - they showed you there isn’t a simple formula?

Do you mean hypothetical rather than anecdotal?

No expert but wouldn't neglect come into play if each child didnt have a bed space to sleep in - even if bed was shared

Isn’t there also an issue that they can only be rehoused by the council into an appropriate sized property and not just into one that is bigger but still overcrowded? With a family that size their options would be severely limited, whether private or social housing.

Whether it’s a safeguarding issue surely depends on the circumstances. If the kids are clean, fed and able to thrive pastorally and academically then what’s the issue safeguarding wise. It’s not ideal of course but not everyone has the choice of where to live do they.

It's dependent on lots of factors, the main being whether it's owner/ occupier or rented and also whether privately rented or social housing.

Also depends on age and sex of those sharing.

And if everyone has their own bed, it's much less of a safeguarding issue.

Safeguarding thresholds are not cut and dry.

Parents on a sofabed in the living room, 2 sets of bunk beds in each bedroom, all the kids have appropriate clothing, are well fed, do their homework at the library and play in the park. Pets are well trained and cleaned up after.

Or

A couple of dirty mattresses with no sheets in each room, kids sleep where they fall, no one has a winter coat, cat shit everywhere, aggressive dog never taken for walks, children often miss school

Overcrowding isn't in itself a safeguarding issue.

Some people make a conscious decision to live with less possessions in a smaller home to free up money for things important to them such as family activities.

It's not a safeguarding issue, and I can't really think of any examples where it would be considered so - in the sense of 'social services stepping in'.
Safeguarding concerns are when a parent doesn't take necessary/reasonable steps to care for the child(ren)
A parent in overcrowded accommodation who is looking after their children is the victim of our rubbish housing system but it isn't a 'safeguarding issue'
Social services might offer advice to a family but they rarely have any influence/power to secure them alternative housing. And housing don't usually consider overcrowding as a reason to move unless exceptional/unavoidable circs. Eg they won't give points for overcrowding if someone has gone on to have more children. They may give points if for example you'd taken in another family member who was otherwise homeless.

As others have said overcrowding can increase the risk of other issues such as neglect and DV but on its own it's not a safeguarding concern. Not to say it's a nice situation but poverty/deprivation and safeguarding concerns are not the same thing.

Statutory overcrowding is quite a high bar to meet.

There are all manner of reasons a family could be living like this

Also OP tread carefully with this one as it's a bit of a cultural minefield. There are plenty of communities where large extended households are the norm and they are not all loaded. You could easily cause offence in assuming neglect where a family set up is along a specific traditional line and works well for the family.

Sorry - should have said I'm a social worker!

Safeguarding issue means there is a risk of harm. Where is the harm? Do the children have a place to sleep? Are they fed? Can they play?
My ILs are in another country where it's not the norm for people to have their own bedroom necessarily. PILs have a small 2 bed flat with a large living room. At some points there have been 7 adults and 5 children living there and nobody has been at risk of any harm. There are a core of 4 adults and 3 kids living there now. They all have a place to sleep, the flat is cleaned daily so spotless, the children can play. It's just a different cultural norm.

It wont be based on number of people per bedroom and the like. It will be far more of a subjective judgement

Here's the legal definition of overcrowding:

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housingadvice/repairs/checkkifyourrhomeissovercrowdedbyylaw

In my area a landlord has been told to issue an eviction notice because the house is overcrowded. The family have had more children than bedrooms, and the ages/sexes needing to share are inappropriate.

And it's a lot less crowded than your situation!

It's not safeguarding if that is the only issue. Would probably come under Child In Need, but in reality it's a housing issue, with lack of suitable properties in many areas.

It's really not as simple as there being a clear definition or cut off point. Every case is different.
People assessing this will be considering:
How big is the space and how is it organised?
Does each child have somewhere clean and safe to sleep?
Is the home clean, safe and free from hazards?
Who is sharing with who? What are the ages and genders?
There could be a very well organised but small property where all the children's needs are being met which is preferable to a 4 bed house in squalor.
What else is going with the family, are there other concerns?
Is this accommodation permanent?

I would imagine that social workers and other professionals would be supporting families in severe overcrowding to be re housed if they're renting/already house by their LA or a HA.

I think in that situation you would be unreasonable to have pets , it would be considered overcrowding if a council property but could only move if suitable place if privately owned up to them

I thought you were on about overcrowding at a music venue or something and was thinking of safeguarding against crushing 🤦‍♀️ oooops.

Don't think a house can be a safety issue as the things you've described aren't dangerous, they're just inconvenient.

It is only neglect if the children's basic needs are not being met.

If they are being fed, are able to wash and have clean clothes (not necessarily daily), have somewhere safe to sleep (ideally a bed, but bed sharing is not uncommon) and are getting an education I don't think it would be neglect.

@Goblina
Lots of people aren’t in “the right mind”

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

Who in their right mind would have 8 kids if they lived in a tiny flat and couldn't afford a bigger property.

8 kids isn't a single contraception failure.