To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

This thread is a goldmine for people making incredibly stupid points as if they’re amazing gotchas.

you're telling me a horse would choose to go SIDEWAYS of their own accord are you?

Well, yes. Literally all the time. Because they’re agile animals and that’s a normal part of the range of their movement.

so they jump for fun do they?

Yup, my chubby exmoor pony popped over a 4 foot gate the other day because he knows the grass in the big field is lusher.

only toffs have horses

Except virtually everyone I know from the horse world, but sure. Whatever you want to think.

To be fair I have seen people use bits very harshly - people that can't ride, like @Thatsjustwhatithink I'd imagine

One of the best things about riding is you never stop learning, even those at the Olympics still have lessons and are coached. Some of the posters on this thread haven’t even started learning nor wish to learn

Earlier you said something like "pressure is not pain". That's not really right- force from a push or pull action is pressure, and it becomes pain when it passes an individual threshold. For millennium that threshold has been exactly how human have got animals to do their bidding.

Have you ever seen people doing liberty training?

[quote Polkadotties]@Thatsjustwhatithink showing once again they know nothing about how to ride or control a horse. It’s quite amusing actually 😂[/quote]
Yes it must be quite liberating thinking you know everything when clearly you know next to nothing

@Thatsjustwhatithink showing once again they know nothing about how to ride or control a horse. It’s quite amusing actually 😂

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Bryonyshcmyony

Earlier you said something like "pressure is not pain". That's not really right- force from a push or pull action is pressure, and it becomes pain when it passes an individual threshold. For millennium that threshold has been exactly how human have got animals to do their bidding.

For example, say your horse sees something in a field it wants go and see. You, however, want to go straight on. The horse moves left towards the object and you correct it with a slight ankle and a gentle touch of the rein. The horse is having none of it, it wants to see the object and continues left. Your 'light pressure' hasn't been enough. You do again bit harder, horse still ignores. You go again. This time the reins and pressure reach the pain threshold, as the horse continues you tug harder. If now has a choice, it stops and does your bidding and no pain. Or it continues on its own desire and gets pain. The horse will likely desist, after all no animal likes being hurt.

This is 1000s of years worth of how humans have 'trained' animals that are physically stronger than us. We used our brains to pinpoint areas that we could control. This has been done with elephants, camels you name it, humans have done it. Felines, especially large ones like lions or tigers react very differently, way more so than dogs, wild or not. Large felines have never been truely domesticated (you can only domesticate as small cat so mich as most cat owners know). Large felines get aggressive, so humans have tended to declaw, detooth, and drug. It's all about minimising the risk.

Back to horses, whilst it's moved on with different kit, the tactic is still the same. Eventually the animal learns that if it doesn't do what's it's told on 'pressure' it gets pain.

But I'm interested in what you think is going on, I'm only going on centuries and centuries of anthropology. I'm am interested in how you see the pressure/bit/equipment working. How do you think the pressure works on the animal?[/quote]
Please don't try and tell me about horses. You are embarrassing yourself. Do you talk to all experts like this?

This is like one of those rich white guy posts trying to tell women of colour how they should behave.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Earlier you said something like "pressure is not pain". That's not really right- force from a push or pull action is pressure, and it becomes pain when it passes an individual threshold. For millennium that threshold has been exactly how human have got animals to do their bidding.

For example, say your horse sees something in a field it wants go and see. You, however, want to go straight on. The horse moves left towards the object and you correct it with a slight ankle and a gentle touch of the rein. The horse is having none of it, it wants to see the object and continues left. Your 'light pressure' hasn't been enough. You do again bit harder, horse still ignores. You go again. This time the reins and pressure reach the pain threshold, as the horse continues you tug harder. If now has a choice, it stops and does your bidding and no pain. Or it continues on its own desire and gets pain. The horse will likely desist, after all no animal likes being hurt.

This is 1000s of years worth of how humans have 'trained' animals that are physically stronger than us. We used our brains to pinpoint areas that we could control. This has been done with elephants, camels you name it, humans have done it. Felines, especially large ones like lions or tigers react very differently, way more so than dogs, wild or not. Large felines have never been truely domesticated (you can only domesticate as small cat so mich as most cat owners know). Large felines get aggressive, so humans have tended to declaw, detooth, and drug. It's all about minimising the risk.

Back to horses, whilst it's moved on with different kit, the tactic is still the same. Eventually the animal learns that if it doesn't do what's it's told on 'pressure' it gets pain.

But I'm interested in what you think is going on, I'm only going on centuries and centuries of anthropology. I'm am interested in how you see the pressure/bit/equipment working. How do you think the pressure works on the animal?

@thatsjustwhatithink with every post you emphasise your ignorance and prejudices. You've already described in your own words how appalling your own riding is, although clearly going you are the bees knees. You are really in no position to criticise anyone else. Come back when you have learned to ride properly.

[quote sadperson16]@Thatsjustwhatithink,I agree.
Its horrible.
How the hell would you know if a horse likes this treatment, it cant actually tell you can it?[/quote]
Just wait until you hear about these people called vets, it will blow your mind!

@sadperson16 how would you then ensure that mental & physical needs are both met?

Were here because we think forcing sentient beasts into performing in unnatural ways,should be consigned to history.

Okay then

It's the same as a cat! You know where a cat likes being stroked, if they like being brushed, if they're scared or in pain
If a horse doesn't like something, it's pretty easy to tell usually by the pinned back ears and teeth and hooves launching at you. It's important they know stuff like stand/move over/walk on because they're so bloody big. A cat might scratch you, a horse can kill you
I took mine to the vet once because "he looked at me funny"
Thankfully the vet knows me and agreed, and he had a giant abscess that was hidden

behavioural lexicon......that made my day

I knew there was something wrong with my boy when he refused an apple. I immediately knew something was wrong. Half an hour later he was blown up like a beach ball on legs colicking.

How did I know how to call the vet? That something was wrong without words? Well I read his body language

Yes! My daughter’s pony recently had colic. We didn’t have any of the rolling, kicking at her stomach type symptoms.

She simply laid down. We had brought her in, she ate her tea fine, DD groomed her, picked her feet out, etc. All fine. But just as we were leaving she laid down. She would normally go to her hay, laying down when the yard was still quite busy isn’t normal for her. Her body language and actions told me something was wrong.

I have an elderly, arthritic retiree. She’s normally quite stoic and is never obviously lame when she’s uncomfortable. I do however, know her well enough to spot her body language and her little signs that tell me she’s been twatting about in her field again so needs some extra pain relief.

[quote sadperson16]@Thatsjustwhatithink,I agree.
Its horrible.
How the hell would you know if a horse likes this treatment, it cant actually tell you can it?[/quote]
I have just spent (well the insurance company has) over £1000 on vet fees because someone fed my horse grass clippings from their lawn. He had colic and secondary issues from it.

How did I know how to call the vet? That something was wrong without words?
Well I read his body language of him excessively rolling and the expression on his face/droopy ears and his general demeanor of looking 'sick', head down, listless, breathing changes and sweating gave me a clue. I didn't need him to turn around and actually say "Hello human, got belly ache, give the vet a tinkle would you, these damned hooves don't lend themselves to dialing phones" good job really because he'd be dead now if I hadn't.

I also didn't need him to actually speak words to know he was feeling better, the spinning (dressage term - pirouette) and the trotting on the spot (dressage term - piaffe) and his actual horse vocalisations of whinnying (horses have several vocal noises they use to communicate from a grunt, to a squeal to a full on neigh) because he wanted to be back in the field with his mates.

Do you think knowing all that is guess work? Or I just fancied an out of hours trip from the vet and two nights camped outside his stable?

Or have I learned to read a horses body language, and more specifically my own horses body language and know what those signs mean? Through years of training and being with these animals and specifically him. I know just by looking at my horse what mood he's in, I've learned what training techniques have worked and what haven't by his reaction.
Animals have many, many ways of telling us things, that are more honest and trustworthy than most humans, it's up to us to listen and take heed and action.
My horse hated certain things, I didn't just get lucky and know what they were, he didn't have to tell me he didn't with words, I listened to his body language and responded accordingly.
He follows me around the field getting in the way when I'm clearing it, and he's retired and lives in a field all the time, he hasn't worn a headcollar, apart from to have his feet trimmed by the farrier or have his yearly booster for a few years, and that's for their and his safety because he is still a horse who could pull away having been spooked by something unexpected.

Honestly some people just don't think things through do they?!

[quote sadperson16]@Thatsjustwhatithink,I agree.
Its horrible.
How the hell would you know if a horse likes this treatment, it cant actually tell you can it?[/quote]
You honestly believe that a massive animal has NO WAY to communicate displeasure? Nothing at all in their behavioural lexicon? Nothing that stems from their instincts as a prey animal, or their behaviour as herd animals?

You can come up with nothing? Really?

[quote sadperson16]@Thatsjustwhatithink,I agree.
Its horrible.
How the hell would you know if a horse likes this treatment, it cant actually tell you can it?[/quote]
Yes, they can and do tell you

You watch their body language

www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/horses/behaviour/bodylanguage

core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82396388.pdf

[quote sadperson16]@Thatsjustwhatithink,I agree.
Its horrible.
How the hell would you know if a horse likes this treatment, it cant actually tell you can it?[/quote]
RTFT!
It’s called learning how to read animal behaviour!

Blimey, how many things can a person get wrong in one post??

1. That's the dressage team, not the showjumpers.
2. That's not this year's dressage team, which was only made up of three riders.
3. You can literally see two horses' heads in the background of the photo, waiting for their riders to get back on for the lap of honour.

Thank you for your attention to detail in regards to 1 & 2 VLB.
Your comments have been noted.
3 was deliberate, as you probably know, to illustrate that when it comes to the media pics the horses are relegated to the background. Perhaps from necessity.

@Thatsjustwhatithink,I agree.
Its horrible.
How the hell would you know if a horse likes this treatment, it cant actually tell you can it?