To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

There’s a lot of laughing and sniggering and ‘oh, we’ll they don’t ride , what do they know’ and evading questions because they don’t want to examine their own narrative… and not a lot of actual answers or adult debate.

Similarly, I ride at a stables where a mare they had purchased was found to be in foal. Being cold-hearted evil people, they took her out of work at once, turned her out, looked after her, and let her rear her foal to weaning. The now-adult foal now lives a very happy life on the livery side of the yard where her mother lives on the riding stables side. I mean, the bastards. They could have spared themselves the trouble and called the knacker-man, but they were just too horrible...

You know which horses bother me? The cobs turned out in scrubby fields (you see them next to motorways) with often inadequate grazing with loads of litter blowing about, or just very poorly fenced. In the part of the country where I live, some of these poor sods got out one night, and ended up cantering along a dual carriageway where they caused a fatal RTA. Several of them were injured in the collision and had to be PTS.

But they don't have the class war aspect, so they get ignored.

And when people start banging on that pressure = pain, you know your odds of an intelligent discussion have fallen to about zero. It's like saying that speaking to a child is the same as shouting at it, or that holding someone's hand is the same as squeezing all the blood out of it.

Of course this horse may have looked you in the eye and said "Bryony...please put that bit of metal back in my mouth"

@Bryonyshcmyony

Explain how you know they 'hate' them in behavioural terms, and how this could also be interpreted as the rider no longer having control and horse choosing not to do as the rider wishes.

But come on horse genius....how do you think a bit works?

I agree with conflict of interest. But I don't care about buying stuff for horses I no longer ride. My point is that all bits are designed in the same way. And if you can't control as horse witout a bit (which is mainly why people don't use bitless bridles) that surely says something?

@Bryonyshcmyonyand @Polkadotties

Come on...explain how you think at bit works. It's great to continually shit on people without providing your own expert knowledge.

And how come none of my horses have ever had dental issues caused by bits or bone spurs?

Clearly a conspiracy of Big Equine Dental and the bit manufacturers.

My tiny Arabian would not go in a bit for love nor money, so we tried a Dr. Cook's bitless with her before settling in a hackamore. As a tool, it's fine -- same as any other, applied badly, it can cause plenty of damage.

It's not the bridle that's the problem, it's the conflict of interest. There's a reason his "hot take" hasn't taken the entire equestrian world by storm -- believe me, if there were a product that made the horse happier and go better, dressage riders would buy a dozen. With the amount of money we spend on equine equipment and services (chiro, physio, vet care, dental care, and in some notable cases psychic communicators) something as simple as changing out the bridle and bit would be a bargain.

😂 ahh this just gets even funnier

Found this on the same website thst you copied and pasted from

Bit-induced diseases run the gamut from oral problems such as bone spurs on the bars of the mouth and dental damage, to facial neuralgia, neck and back pain, bridle lameness, learned helplessness, depression, suffocation, waterlogging of the lungs and sudden death

🙄

[quote Thatsjustwhatithink]@Bryonyshcmyony

What I've noticed from you is a lot of insults, a lot of "you're so stupid" etc, but what I haven't seen is you explain how you think the pressure works in a bit. Explain if you are the expert. A good argument relies on actual knowledge not how much you insult others.

I could go more scientific on you and explain which nerves each bit actually targets if you want? The bits is designed to exert pressure on the cranial nerves of the horse. It's really that simple. A dental bit for example, this is on the horse’s mouth where there are no teeth. This cause damage to the premolars and causes the development of bone spurs.

A trigeminal action bit puts pressure on the horse’s palate, affecting the mandibular and maximally nerves. This causes pain in the maxillary teeth, palate, nasal cavity, and the entire lower jaw. As I said earlier, some horses use their tongue to push the bit away, which cause further breathing problems.

If you like 'pressure' and don't think that's its actually pain, it may interest you to know that a bit can exert 50-100kg per cm squared if pressure.

Other bits are made for 'stronger' horses and are only recommended to be used on 'strong' horses because they cause damage.

If you're really interested W. Robert Cook, FRCVS, PhD did a study on wild horse skulls and domestic horse skulls are found a whopping 88 % of the domestic horse skulls showed bone or dental damage. 0% of the wild horses did.

But as you and @Polkadotties feel really clever- tell me which bits/bridles you use and what nerve they target. Tell me how you've calculated the pressure exerted on the mouth.

But why actually debate or back yourself with evidence? You can be like "haha I bet she doesn't ride, she must be crap".[/quote]
Wtf is a "dental bit"?

And how come none of my horses have ever had dental issues caused by bits or bone spurs?

Dr Cook bitless bridle puts a huge amount of pressure on the soft part of the nose and can genuinely be painful for the horse.

Good bit of Googling there. Well done

If you're really interested W. Robert Cook, FRCVS, PhD did a study on wild horse skulls and domestic horse skulls are found a whopping 88 % of the domestic horse skulls showed bone or dental damage. 0% of the wild horses did.

This Dr. Cook? bitlessbridle.com/dr-robert-cook-bitless-bridle/

The one who sells his bitless bridle? And makes a profit off of it?

No conflict of interest there, surely.

@Bryonyshcmyony

What I've noticed from you is a lot of insults, a lot of "you're so stupid" etc, but what I haven't seen is you explain how you think the pressure works in a bit. Explain if you are the expert. A good argument relies on actual knowledge not how much you insult others.

I could go more scientific on you and explain which nerves each bit actually targets if you want? The bits is designed to exert pressure on the cranial nerves of the horse. It's really that simple. A dental bit for example, this is on the horse’s mouth where there are no teeth. This cause damage to the premolars and causes the development of bone spurs.

A trigeminal action bit puts pressure on the horse’s palate, affecting the mandibular and maximally nerves. This causes pain in the maxillary teeth, palate, nasal cavity, and the entire lower jaw. As I said earlier, some horses use their tongue to push the bit away, which cause further breathing problems.

If you like 'pressure' and don't think that's its actually pain, it may interest you to know that a bit can exert 50-100kg per cm squared if pressure.

Other bits are made for 'stronger' horses and are only recommended to be used on 'strong' horses because they cause damage.

If you're really interested W. Robert Cook, FRCVS, PhD did a study on wild horse skulls and domestic horse skulls are found a whopping 88 % of the domestic horse skulls showed bone or dental damage. 0% of the wild horses did.

But as you and @Polkadotties feel really clever- tell me which bits/bridles you use and what nerve they target. Tell me how you've calculated the pressure exerted on the mouth.

But why actually debate or back yourself with evidence? You can be like "haha I bet she doesn't ride, she must be crap".

However, it is acknowledged that horses are specifically bred for these activities - but there isn't much acknowledgment that hundreds of young, healthy horses are destroyed because they don't make the grade. It is an industry.

One of my first equestrian jobs shovelling poo for lessons was at a yard that rehomed and retrained racehorses. So the fate of racehorses in particular certainly is something that I not only acknowledge, but have first-hand experience in. I have been to the livestock auctions many times and have either been a sharer for or outright owned horses from the kill pen.

However, this is not happening on that scale in dressage, particularly FEI top level and Olympic dressage, which is what this thread is about. Dressage is unique in that it is foundational to nearly every other equestrian pursuit and so horses bred and trained to it, even if they are not ever going to progress beyond being a solid novice level, are valued. If they don't suit dressage, the chances are that they are suited to another discipline.

I'm not pretending for an instant every horse has a happy fairy-tale ending; hundreds of young, healthy riding horses are not being destroyed because they can't execute a canter pirouette, though. Nobody breeds to kill. I realise the trope of the way to make a small fortune in horses is to start with a large one is certainly true, but no breeder simply discards to the auctions without first trying every other avenue -- there's no profit in it.

I rode for over 10 years. I would never do so now. I find most of the horsey world extremely elitist and cold hearted. Lots of the comments on this thread have totally confirmed that for me. Its really upsetting that so many horses, young and fit ones too, are disposed of so easily.

Your post says that horses are bred to be riding ponies then put down if they can't be riding ponies.

If a horse or pony cannot be ridden it is because it is either dangerous, or thst it's confirmation means it can't be ridden comfortably. In that case I have no problem with euthanasia as a horse thst can't be ridden is an expensive hobby. There are rehoming centres but if a horse can't ever be ridden it's unlikely to find a home unless people want a small field companion.

Or horse racing?

Neither are correct

Obviously, people who ride themselves, whose children ride or whose work is linked to horse riding/racing, etc., will be very indignant and insist that horses are well looked after, love what they do, etc, etc.

However, it is acknowledged that horses are specifically bred for these activities - but there isn't much acknowledgment that hundreds of young, healthy horses are destroyed because they don't make the grade. It is an industry.

you're telling me a horse would choose to go SIDEWAYS of their own accord are you?

This really is the thread that keeps on giving

you're telling me a horse would choose to go SIDEWAYS of their own accord are you?

My Jack Russell chooses to go sideways often too. She does a lovely half pass. I think in dogs it's called crabbing. Something that agile 4 legged creatures can and do do of their own accord.