To think that equestrian events are ridiculous

If some people have the opinion that equestrian sports are ridiculous, that's okay. It's a perfectly valid opinion. It doesn't make it a fact that they are ridiculous, or that it's not perfectly legitimate to understand or enjoy them.

Different strokes, and all that. . .

@tabctrlnoanykey

Ha ha, yes I agree OP - as if it’s a sport, totally agree that the Olympic should be about human prowess. This weird horse stuff is totally for the privileged few who can afford all that too. I mean, hasn’t a royal won a few of the comps in the past?

My eldest would have worked with horses as a job if she wasn't allergic to them. She did some dressage and can see the almost imperceptible things that the dressage riders do to manage their horses. It's an incredible sport and we really enjoyed watching it.

The only sports I don't enjoy are the team sports, but I can at least see the value in them. Why write off a whole category in the Olympics just because you can't or won't understand it.

@DotBall and @Polkadotties - thanks for explaining. I never realised it was so finely-tuned. Those horses are wonderful! I always wanted to ride but never got around to it - too old to start now though!!

If you’ve ever ridden a horse you have “done dressage”, just at a very basic level.

The roots of dressage are ancient - as in Ancient Greece! The very first written record of training horses (which is still in print and can be bought) is The Art of Horsemanship, written by Xenophon in 362BC.

Eventing was originally created for cavalry horses (and the original competitions were open to military riders only). The purpose was to demonstrate control (dressage), bravery (cross country) and stamina (showjumping).

Top level riders don’t just pitch up at the big events, they are slogging it out on a week to week basis bringing on different levels of horse from novice 6yos having their very first competition at a little local show to the Grand Prix horse competing for World Championship honours.

The majority of riders you see at these competitions are not “toffs”, they’ve worked bloody hard to get where they are - you don’t just get on a horse and “know” how to ride to a high standard and no amount of money thrown at training for both horse and rider will substitute for actual talent.

For that reason alone, no discipline involving animals should be above the questioning of non-involved people.

I completely agree but that questioning shouldn’t start from a point of “You’re wrong, you’re cruel, your sport is ridiculous”.

And yes, equestrian sport is expensive, there’s no getting away from that. But so are many sports when you get above a basic level - how much do top level bicycles cost, for instance?

It is not about participation in elite sports though, but participation in a certain sport, period.

But why? Why pick on one elite sport rather than another? I'm not trying to be goady, I just don't understand.

Since the average age of a dressage horse is 13 and horses might live 25 - 30 years, you're not going to see horses from the 90s competing now.

I used to compete at an international level many years ago and it took me quite some time to realise what I pretentious wanker I was and the sport is too.

I don't know much about horses but I do know dogs - and the two worlds do tend to cross over a fair bit. I also know that being involved in a discipline for years does not always make you the absolute best judge of it - at least that's the case with dogs.

It's to do with the stress caused when you must reassess your own behaviour and how it alligns with your moral compass. So, someone who has trained dogs for decades using a balance of punishment and rewards can find it very difficult to accept more modern studies that show the punishment is unnecessary (and sometimes counter productive).

They struggle because to accept that also means they have punished dogs they loved, for no need. This clashes with their personal view of themselves as a dog lover and it is, therefore, hard to stomach. A type of moral dissonance.

For that reason alone, no discipline involving animals should be above the questioning of non-involved people. They offer a perspective that it is very hard to replicate solely within the social group of that discipline. Doesn't make that view right (always) but it is why simply saying "you don't compete so cannot understand" is a dangerous echo chamber to stay in.

[quote Snoringturtle]Don’t patronise me @1990s or pretend that foals don’t get slaughtered. As I said previously I have my own horses and a yard but you denying or pretending that this is not a common occurrence is just ridiculous.

I am not going to post the recent video which is readily available on google from potters abattoir but what on earth to do think happens to the unwanted foals?

www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/18739681.cruelty-horses-case-wiltshire-abattoir-guilty/[/quote]
I hope you'll take this as it's meant - I didn't mean to patronise you, I apologise if you felt like that.

Thank you for providing some evidence, there is a lot being said on this thread which is very much opinion based without any context or evidence.

Animal cruelty results from any interaction between humans and animals. The whole world hasn't stopped eating meat because some animals are badly treated, and I don't think riding should stop because some animals are badly treated as in your link.

My opinion is that we should try to stop this animal cruelty rather than just stop the human interaction with the animal, as larger it is positive, in the same way I think we should for any other animal.

@Snoringturtle

For those denigrating equestrian sport, I am the first to acknowledge that there have been problems with some - SOME - caring more about success than their horses. But not only is there a huge amount of work having been done on horses being “happy athletes” but there are a significant amount of rules around horse welfare that cover all aspects. And the sanctions for breaching them are (rightly) harsh.

Not only this but there has been a huge shift in the last 10-15 years because of riders like Carl Hester and Charlotte Dujardin, who got results by riding their horses well and correctly, rather than bullying or demanding. For anyone watching the Discovery coverage last week, one of the commentators said how noticeable it is that average scores are higher and that is because horses are more relaxed and the riding more harmonious. Then it becomes a positive cycle because riders know how their horses have got to go in order to get the high scores. You can’t cheat and make it “look good”, it has to be good else the judges can see it.

The vast majority of riders ride because we love our horses, we love the partnership and we love working together with our horses. There might be things people disagree with - from disagreeing about riding horses at all to whether or not a particular type of noseband should be used - but that doesn’t make us cruel.

In the disciplines being referred to here, of course they fly their own/the team horses.

Don’t patronise me @1990s or pretend that foals don’t get slaughtered. As I said previously I have my own horses and a yard but you denying or pretending that this is not a common occurrence is just ridiculous.

I am not going to post the recent video which is readily available on google from potters abattoir but what on earth to do think happens to the unwanted foals?

www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/18739681.cruelty-horses-case-wiltshire-abattoir-guilty/

Didn't you see the interview with e the gold-medal-winning equestrian team yesterday? Oliver Townend was at pains to say they were all from a normal background, not privileged, and he hoped this would encourage other riders to aim for the Olympics.

It's all relative though. Things like football, hockey, netball (I know that's not an olympic sport)athletics etc are things a lot of people might do at school, (free) and if good enough get in the school team etc. Swimming or gymnastics lessons if blocked booked are usually less than £10 a lesson. There was only one stables locally where I grew up (london suburbia) compared to the several swimming pools or gymnastics venues. Where I am now (a commuter town) there are I think 3 stables but lessons are multiple times the price of being in the athletics club or going to swimming lessons.
A lot of people on this thread have talked about how you can watch fabulous eventing or equestrian stuff free or very cheaply...but that doesnt neccessarily equate with being able to partake cheaply.
Even skateboarding (which I thought was pretty underwhelming at the Olympics) you can do at a local park!

I think non sporty people don’t understand how expensive any sport can be at elite level if you don’t have access to funding. Training costs, equipment, travel, accommodation, physio, entry fees etc will set you back many thousands of pounds each year.

*dog owners.

Could someone 'horsey' explain just how the rider controls the horse? I know they use their knees in some way but how does that translate into different movements for the horse? Also, does the horse 'learn' the routine and practise it or does the rider rely on instructions every time?

It’s a combination of signals (called aids) from the rider’s legs, seat, weight and hands. Particularly with the leg aids, it’s a further combination of where those leg aids are in relation to the horse (e.g. further back or forward on the horse’s side) and to each other (e.g. left leg further back than the right). The weight comes into play as a horse will naturally move “under” a rider’s weight. If I want to move sideways or create a bend, I will shift my weight slightly in that direction by placing more weight on one seatbone than the other.

Legs and seat (the latter of which works in the sense of “following” the horse’s stride - if I allow my pelvis to swing along with the horse’s movement I’m encouraging forward movement, whereas if I deliberately restrict how much my pelvis follows the horse’s movement I’m restricting it) also create and control energy - I can create energy from the hind legs with my legs (horses being, effectively, rear wheel drive!) and then hold it with my seat to redirect that into a more elevated step, or allow it forward into a lengthened stride. My hands stop the energy flowing out the front, like putting a cap on a toothpaste tube before you squeeze it, but you don’t want too much hand because it creates unnecessary tension and tightness. Too much hand also creates heaviness at their front end, which is not what you want - you want them to hold their weight in their hind legs and core, and not your hands, so they can power forward but retain lightness and relaxation in their overall movement.

The higher the level of training, the more refined the aids are not just in the sense of being hard to see (which is why riders look like they’re not doing anything!) but in terms of a tiny difference in where a leg aid is applied creating a different effect.

As for the dressage tests, the rider will learn them off by heart but the ideal is that the horse does not. You’ll see lettered markers around the arena and movements have to be carried out precisely at those markers. If the horse starts to learn the test they can anticipate and do things early/in the wrong place which will be marked down.

That said, I have occasionally taught my horse a section of a dressage test because it’s a movement that’s tricky or something she finds hard, so them knowing what you’re going to do works to your advantage!

Thank you for asking 🙂

I think some posters are jealous. Maybe they didn't get the pony they asked for as children.

Most amateurs look on them as pets in the same way that dog lent do. They just walk them from on top.

Horses are much more fun than dogs for many of us and that's ok.

Also if you follow Charlotte dujardin’s Instagram feed you’ll see that her current horse pumpkin is already home, he was shown yesterday having a lovely time in his field at home. Horses are brought back from competition and after they retire many go on to have a long career as stud horses.

I do a tiny bit of dressage - my horse hates it and finds it boring which is why we do so little. I can hear her thinking ‘seriously woman why do we have to do another boring 20m circle? We just did one’. However point her at a jump (even unintentionally!) and her ears prick up, her pace quickens and frankly I just have to hold on and put my trust in her! She’s a cracker and I love her to bits but I swear to god she’s going to leave me behind completely one day. My daughter’s nutcase of a pony does dressage, but really really fast because hes so enthusiastic but won’t jump - we tried a bit but he has a habit of stopping dead at the wrong moment.

Anyway, all this to say that horsey people love their animals and work closely with them, playing to their strengths and working on their weaknesses. Like any sport there are arseholes but on the whole people are kind and good to their animals. I’d be lying if I said you didn’t need a bit of money to fund the sport - we have both of ours on a working livery which reduces the costs considerably but it’s still costly - but we sacrifice a lot of other things to afford this. I’m sure other sports - such as fencing or sailing - are costly to get into but that doesn’t make them less worthy for the olympics. I haven’t a clue what’s going on in BMX for example but I don’t criticise because it’s not like I could jump on a bike and try that!

Again, lots of things being thrown around about "foals going to the meat man", can we have a source for this please?

Maybe it depends where you live but you need to be seriously wealthy where I am to own horses. Unless you own lots of land and are married to an equestrian vet.
Teeth, physio, feed, shoes, vaccinations, transport, rugs, supplements, bedding, livery. It costs a fortune and that’s without doing shows or the horse needing surgery etc.

I wish as much care was shown for the thousands of dumped coloured colts or the six month old foals that go to the meat man.