Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that JK Rowling is being very unfairly treated.

307 replies

Impatiens · 29/01/2021 19:22

For some people the name JK Rowling seems to have become a byword for 'bigot' or 'transphobe' - you only have to mention her name on twitter to cause a storm of accusations and abuse about her and I think it's really unjust.

This week it was announced that a new Harry Potter TV series is in development. Cue howls of outrage from certain people, repeating the same insults and even accusing her of being a bad influence on children. I feel so bad for her. She's always been someone who seemed to want to do good with her wealth and whose books (whether you like them or not) sent a positive message about the need to fight against evil.

A very brief recap of things Rowling has said about the trans debate that have caused anger -

  1. Human biological sex can't be changed (females can't become males/vice versa) and no one should lose their job for saying that.
  1. The word 'Woman' is being erased, particularly from important health messages that only affect females, and replaced with dehumanising terms like 'menstruators', 'cervix-havers' etc
  1. Children/young people who have Gender Dysphoria/Identify as Transgender, shouldn't be given medication as part of any treatment because they're too young to understand the potential side effects.

YABU = JK Rowling's comments were offensive and she deserves the abuse she gets
YANBU = JK Rowling's comments were respectful opinions and she's entitled to voice them without getting abuse.

OP posts:
Original poster
Impatiens · 29/01/2021 22:00

@SionnachRua

Thanks. So do you consider her views to be bigoted and/or transphobic?

OP posts:
SunsetSenora · 29/01/2021 21:59

@Crumpledandcreased

I don't agree that she deserved online abuse/bullying, but I think expressing transphobic views on a public platform was always going to bring negative attention her way and she surely expected it. She said some wise words on different issues over the years but her views on trans women have certainly changed my view of her.
What did she say that is transphobic? I think that there is a lobby now which conflates any questioning or difference of opinion as transphobia. Like the lobby which rolls up not agreeing with Israeli policies with anti Semitism. We are losing a lot of nuance, and enabling those at the extreme end of the view point (whatever that is) to dictate terms. Which then closes down any discussion. Which is really scary.
ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 29/01/2021 21:59

FWIW, there is only one reference to bathrooms in her essay.

"So I want trans women to be safe. At the same time, I do not want to make natal girls and women less safe. When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. That is the simple truth."

I'm curious which part of that anyone could disagree with.

SionnachRua · 29/01/2021 21:57

Btw, I'm well aware that there will probably be an avalanche of replies. I've seen how these threads play out, I know it's a circular conversation at best - and sometimes not even a conversation, just people scoring points. I've no interest in wasting my Friday night on it so I won't engage.

I hope you all enjoy supporting JKR content but it isn't for me. That's not snarky either. I just don't wish to support someone with her views.

ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 29/01/2021 21:56

@SionnachRua

Can you be more specific about her opinions on trans ppl that you don't agree with? Do you disagree that people can't change sex?

There's plenty in it. I can't recall all of her website post now - was a long one - but I remember her talking about the bathroom issue. That's a good example of something I'm not agreeing with her on.

I genuinely couldn't care less whether or not people can physically change sex. Doesn't matter to me. Can they change chromosomes and thus change sex? Nope. I'm still happy to call them women. It doesn't impact my opinion on whether or not they should be in the same bathroom as me, I should be using female pronouns, if I should avoid their deadnames.

As I said, let those who want to boycott boycott. I presume a lot who agree with her will tune in specifically to support? That's alright by me too.

Her essay was posted earlier in the thread if you want to refresh your memory.

In fact I might do that now.

SionnachRua · 29/01/2021 21:55

Can you be more specific about her opinions on trans ppl that you don't agree with? Do you disagree that people can't change sex?

There's plenty in it. I can't recall all of her website post now - was a long one - but I remember her talking about the bathroom issue. That's a good example of something I'm not agreeing with her on.

I genuinely couldn't care less whether or not people can physically change sex. Doesn't matter to me. Can they change chromosomes and thus change sex? Nope. I'm still happy to call them women. It doesn't impact my opinion on whether or not they should be in the same bathroom as me, I should be using female pronouns, if I should avoid their deadnames.

As I said, let those who want to boycott boycott. I presume a lot who agree with her will tune in specifically to support? That's alright by me too.

midgedude · 29/01/2021 21:54

The difference is that in trans you accept that you are wrong

In gender none conforming you accept that you are fine and society is wrong

Original poster
Impatiens · 29/01/2021 21:53

She said some wise words on different issues over the years but her views on trans women have certainly changed my view of her.

Which views are those? The ones where she said she was happy for people to dress however they want and live their best life in peace and security?

OP posts:
ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 29/01/2021 21:52

@Echobelly

She has said some things that are ill-advised, like regurgitating the line that X% of 'trans' kids desist from that behaviour (when it's about 'gender non conforming, not trans), but she is not a bigot, or hate-filled and I do find it ridiculous when I see people saying things like 'Haha! JK Rowling would hate this because she wants trans people to fail/die!' when she has stated quite clearly she feels no such thing and clearly has no animosity toward trans women at all.
What is the difference between being gender non conforming and being trans?
midgedude · 29/01/2021 21:51

If it's transphobic to sex isn't gender then she is not ill advised to say it . It is ill advised to suggest otherwise

ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 29/01/2021 21:51

@Crumpledandcreased

I don't agree that she deserved online abuse/bullying, but I think expressing transphobic views on a public platform was always going to bring negative attention her way and she surely expected it. She said some wise words on different issues over the years but her views on trans women have certainly changed my view of her.
Which of her views are transphobic?
midgedude · 29/01/2021 21:50

It's only gender none confirming once they desist

Before that they are trans

Crumpledandcreased · 29/01/2021 21:48

I don't agree that she deserved online abuse/bullying, but I think expressing transphobic views on a public platform was always going to bring negative attention her way and she surely expected it. She said some wise words on different issues over the years but her views on trans women have certainly changed my view of her.

Echobelly · 29/01/2021 21:48

She has said some things that are ill-advised, like regurgitating the line that X% of 'trans' kids desist from that behaviour (when it's about 'gender non conforming, not trans), but she is not a bigot, or hate-filled and I do find it ridiculous when I see people saying things like 'Haha! JK Rowling would hate this because she wants trans people to fail/die!' when she has stated quite clearly she feels no such thing and clearly has no animosity toward trans women at all.

LegoLegs · 29/01/2021 21:48

@Flaunch

She’s a wonderful human being and spoke nothing but the truth.
Took the words out of my mouth. She's a legend.
Original poster
Impatiens · 29/01/2021 21:47

@SionnachRua that's fine obviously - no one has to like her books or anything about her actually, it's the targeting for abuse and the slurring of her name as almost an alternative word for 'bigot' that I can't stand.

Can you be more specific about her opinions on trans ppl that you don't agree with? Do you disagree that people can't change sex?

OP posts:
Resisterance · 29/01/2021 21:46

YANBU she's had a hell of a time and she doesn't deserve it.

She's simply stated the truth and been bullied and vilified for it.

midgedude · 29/01/2021 21:44

What specific opinion do you not agree with !?

SionnachRua · 29/01/2021 21:41

@Impatiens

Personally I never thought much of her and the whole trans debacle just cemented that.

Can you explain what it is about the 'trans debacle' that cements your low opinion of her? Do you think she shouldn't have said anything? Or said things differently?

I flat out don't agree with her opinions on trans people. It's that simple. I read her website post etc when that story blew up. It was well written but as someone who is very against the standard MN view of trans people, it's not something I want to support.

Now, I was never one of those kids who hugely identified with Harry Potter - hated the books actually - so her having these views doesn't really bother me. I would be avoiding her work anyway because I don't enjoy it. But I know she was an icon for many who felt rejected or different.

ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 29/01/2021 21:37

@LAgeDeRaisin

Did she wrote Toads, get it right Grin
Grin
LAgeDeRaisin · 29/01/2021 21:36

Did she wrote Toads, get it right Grin

BarbaraofKent · 29/01/2021 21:35

Yes, I think some people missed the irony of the 'Notorious Transphobe' badges!

ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 29/01/2021 21:35

@birthingball

YABU, she has wrote some disgusting things and has advertised merchandise such as badges that say 'F* your pronouns' and 'Notorious Transphobe'
What disgusting things did she write?
midgedude · 29/01/2021 21:34

So badges

People calling her transphobe is fine , her calling herself transohobe bad ?

One rule for us And another for her?

Original poster
Impatiens · 29/01/2021 21:34

Personally I never thought much of her and the whole trans debacle just cemented that.

Can you explain what it is about the 'trans debacle' that cements your low opinion of her? Do you think she shouldn't have said anything? Or said things differently?

OP posts: