To ask black mumsnetters a question.

Simple? Really?

I'm not gaslighting, I was answering the questions that you asked me directly.

But lovely of you to throw in not only an ableist insult but also a misogynistic one too.

Jascarm

I'm not triggered at all, just entering into a discussion.

Should all white people be banned from working with children because most paedophiles are white men? Well, no, because I wouldn't expect all black people be banned from something based on the behaviour of some black people. But do I object to you saying that most paedophiles are white? No.

Would I expect Tobe treated differently on the basis that paedophiles are mainly white men? Well, I'm not a white man so on that basis, no. Would I expect white men to be treated differently - no, unless it could be proven that it was a proportionate response.

Do I think white people should be harassed by the police? Not generally no. But then I don't think that anyone should be harassed by the police. If the police were looking for a white, middle aged woman with blonde hair and a limp in connection with a crime then yes, I'd expect them to stop any of us who fitted that description.

Basically, I think we should all be treated equally by the police, regardless of our sex, age, colour, religion etc. If police decide that it's necessary to stop and search white people I would accept that. But then I'm not fussed about other issues that people consider civil rights, such as ID cards, or now, the track and trace system, so maybe my views aren't representative.

@Bateshotel couldn't have put it better myself!

How does someone who goes through the world comparatively (I am not negating the misogyny that all women experience etc) anonymous ever understand what it means to be judged (largely negatively) On sight

I think quite a lot of people do have some experience of that though. Disabled people for a start are often judged on sight. But of course, we all experience life differently and we don't all feel the same even about the exact same experience.

@EDSGFC

You're triggered because your entitlement has been challenged, I would say it's laughable but this is part of the problem.

The majority of people I have seen accused of pedophilia is white men. Shall we say that white people aren't allowed to work with children and we should profile you all?
Would you expect to be treated differently (assuming you are) because you are white and white men are the main perpetuators of pedophilia? Do you think you should be harassed by the police for this, the same way in which black people are because of 'black on black' crime or fitting a stereotype?

If you think it's fair to target black people on this basis, then it can only be fair to target white people too no?

AryaStarkWolf

But you said the specific task force was to tackle white on white crime. Now you're saying it was gang crime, so not specifically white on white crime? If it was to tackle white on white crime, or the gangs were only white, then I'd have no problem with them describing it as white on white crime - we'd know who they were targeting and where the intervention needed to be happening but I can see that you don't agree.

How should such crimes be identified going forward? What's the best way to describe it? Is a general label such as mugging or knife crime or gang crime specific enough?

There was a specific task force to tackle white on white crime in Glasgow, and guess what? It wasn't referred to as "White on white" crime.....funny that

Ok. So how do they describe it then? How do they explain what their task is if it's, as you say, to tackle white on white crime, how is that explained without using the phrase "white on white"?

Why call it that though? It's implying that the reason they're joining gangs/stabbing people is that they're black and that's not the case. It's a pretty loaded phrase and worse if it's been called that by the Police

I don't know why it was called that or who coined the phrase - possibly the media? Certainly there was a police task force set up to investigate and prevent crime that was committed by black people on black victims and that was following calls by the community to tackle the issue as so many were dying.

You might well say why don't we talk about white on white crime. Equally, we don't have a specific police task force to tackle it.

I cannot remember the name of the operation. If I could I'd look it up to see what it's remit was and the terms used.

[quote JayDot500]@AryaStarkWolf it's all so disheartened. My brother was stabbed by another black boy years ago, the police were very helpful but the boy got off because of lack of evidence (and his mum lied for him). We have marched and been to talks etc.

People (some even black!) love to throw 'black on black' crime at me if I talk about issues concerning racism, and honestly it cuts deeply. Living in Tottenham, London isn't a breeze. I've said on this site before that, as a part of my job, I've engaged with young aged drug dealers of all colours. They fear for their lives; gang culture is really not just a black issue. It's a poverty/marginalised community issue.[/quote]
I'm so sorry to hear about your brother, I hope he was OK?

Of course it's not just a black issue, that makes no sense at all and it's not helpful to refer to it as that because it's not focusing on the actual cause of the problem which is what you say poverty and marginalised communities (which was exactly the same cause of the issues in Glasgow when it was mostly white people)

Yes definitely, the Blm movement in many peoples minds is associated with rioting ans looting and it will also get Donald Trump a second term.

Wasn't "black on black" crime coined after the Met were asked to specifically set up a task force to tackle it though, in part by communities concerned that their young people were being stabbed and killed?

Um no. I’ve heard that phrases used for decades and often against black people as a while especially in the States. Intraracial crime happens in all races but there isn’t white on white crime, asian on asian crime, etc..

@AryaStarkWolf it's all so disheartened. My brother was stabbed by another black boy years ago, the police were very helpful but the boy got off because of lack of evidence (and his mum lied for him). We have marched and been to talks etc.

People (some even black!) love to throw 'black on black' crime at me if I talk about issues concerning racism, and honestly it cuts deeply. Living in Tottenham, London isn't a breeze. I've said on this site before that, as a part of my job, I've engaged with young aged drug dealers of all colours. They fear for their lives; gang culture is really not just a black issue. It's a poverty/marginalised community issue.

Wasn't "black on black" crime coined after the Met were asked to specifically set up a task force to tackle it though, in part by communities concerned that their young people were being stabbed and killed?

I never hear crime being called 'Black on Black'! So white on white as a thing isn't in my orbit either. In Glasgow the gangs in the past were just called gangs, as far as I'm aware the gangs now are just gangs. I feel quite often people equate what is happening in one part of the country -London as something that happens all over but it doesn't. Up north we're not concerned about Black on Black anything.

I have just shown this thread to my (black, bright, politically savvy) 26 year old after being rather taken aback by the finger pointing.

In my DDs opinion, ( after she’d finished laughing) the OP has asked the opinion specifically of black women, no I’m not a bigot for asking the question, not answering the question was an answer in itself ..and that getting annoyed by strangers on the internet on a sunny day ain’t the best use of my energy. So on that basis, have a lovely afternoon @MeridaTheBold!

Straven you dont believe POC in the uk when they talk about how they encounter racism every single day? You dont believe POC when they say they are more likely to be stopped and searched than white people of their age? Or do you think that 'driving while black' is a stoppable offence?

I don't like that we take on the USA's issues.
If you really think you can influence the USA go out and demand that guns be banned! That would save more lives across the board - but no one does that because they would be wasting their time, likewise BLM support is wasting your time imv. The US quite rightly doesn't care what random Brits think. BLM is not all for the good. It could result in MORE support for Trump.
Be sensible rather than top wokeist person on yr FB goup.

Do you think there’s more racism since the BLM movement?

Nope - the increase happened with BREXIT. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson opened the floodgates. The covert racists were given the greenlight to step out and be overtly racist.