AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

There are tons of happy children in childcare 7:45am-6pm every day. A great nanny is worth the weight in gold.

2 year olds are demanding, you have a demanding job. Of course you feel stretched thin. But I think most parents of little children do. Regardless of their job. Regardless of SAHM or not.

I have worked full time since my DC were 2 and 4 (now 6 and 8). I am not cut out to be a SAHM. I found it relentless boring and repetitive and because of that felt like a complete failure as a mother. Wasn’t I supposed to feel happy to be at home with the kids?

I jumped at the great job. DH went part time. We then moved abroad and I’m the sole earner. We have kind of realized that it’s very difficult for us both to accelerate our careers at the same time. Mine went on the back burner with 2 mat leaves and PT in between, now his is on the back-burner.

I’ve felt guilty about working, about enjoying working, about knowing that this is a better set-up than me being at home. But I feel less of a failure like this, than I would if were at home the whole time.

The mum guilt is never-ending regardless of what you do.

In all honesty, it sounds like you’re giving up a lot. I agree that PT can be the worst if both worlds but if you and your husband could both do 80% this could help.

Can you take a couple of days off here and there to recharge a bit if you’re not using it for holidays?

Sorry my post is a bit jumbled. In short - I think you have other options, you just need to find them!

Hi OP, I hear you, it's a hard slog and about to get worse. I am an anaesthetist - now consultant w 2 DC, but had DC1 with 3 years of training to go.

First of all, part-time is not your friend in training, as you already realised. At least if you go fulltime, you'll be able to afford a nanny and finish faster. Also, full time nanny is automatically part of your bubble (in a way that a part time nanny can't be as she has to work for more than one family) - something I had no idea I would appreciate last year as, like you, we also previously relied on grandparents (and still do, but less due to the restrictions).

Secondly, how much do you want to do surgery per se? I remember facing that choice many years ago and a wise senior trainee said to me that you want to be sure you like surgery 100%, not even 99% is enough. I realised that what she was saying, in my case, would have meant no children, possibly not even a partner unless they were prepared to drag around the country with me from post to post for years (I'm not in the UK). Is there any other path you'd like to try in medicine? Or para-medical - e.g. medicolegal/advisory/academic medicine/similar? You haven't done your final exams yet, if you retrain now, the beginning of the new training time is often gentler, so you'll find you have time for your children, then, as they grow up you can ramp up as well. There is no right answer here, you need a few hours to yourself (hard right now as well!) to think this through. Is there a mentor you trust and can speak to about this? Preferably more than one, as sometimes senior medics can be a bit tunnel visioned too - you need to see more than one tunnel then!

Thirdly, you need to have a chat w DH - he needs to be more supportive if you want to stay in medicine or any other career. There are ways for him, but HE needs to look for them/negotiate for them/basically put his money where his mouth is in terms of allowing both your careers to thrive.

There is no way I could be where I am without my DH, but he's tenure track academic whose hours are more flexible than mine - he does all the drop offs and pick ups and reading etc. He does work in the evenings when the kids are in bed. He's no saint and I find I still have most of the mental load, but he does try his best most of the time.

Most importantly, we have a full time nanny for DS2 (and DS1 after school). We pay her extra to do cleaning/tidying/hanging up & then folding away laundry (DS2 still naps solidly + she's training him to be a helper when he's awake, b/c even sorting pegs is fun at his age). This is something I specifically screened for when interviewing - she needs to be "your" person.

Lastly, a word of caution for the future, part-time doesn't always work for consultants either, depending on your area of subspecialty. My employer technically can't refuse if I try, but it would make my actual working conditions (and pay) very unattractive. After all the hard work and sacrifice I'm not about to give that up.

Basically my advice is absolutely don't quit a career, be it surgery or something else, but you have some introspection and serious conversations ahead of you.

This is why I gave up my career as a lawyer. 9 years ago. I don't regret it. In the next few years I will look for a job but I am no longer interested in an all consuming career. I have seen from my colleagues who have kids what that looks like and it is not what I want for family life.

People on here are a bit naive about what medicine, and surgery in particular, involves. Ultimately, if you carry on, you aren't going to be the ones raising your children. Which will probably be fine, and like most, they'll be ok and grow up with excellent work ethics etc. But I have known children who's parents weren't around completely lose the plot in their teens and twenties. Who resent their parents hugely. Who didn't feel prioritised and as a result don't share their problems when their older. You are risking so much relying on other people to be doing the lions share. Your ethics, morals, standards, manners, etc are being taught to your children by other people. That's a hell of a risk, and I have known lots of people it backfired for. An au pair cannot replace a parent and the years before about age 9 are the foundation your entire life and sense of self rests on. I think what you want to achieve is only possible with a lot of money (for top rate childcare, Norlands, private schools) or incredible family support (aunts, uncles, gps around the corner and very present in your lives) or both. It's so unfair, but I think I would completely re think my career in your position. Even if you were fully qualified already, the hours would still be incredibly intense and I think your children need more from you.

I am a surgeon mum of two - my children are 8 and 5. The last few years were tough but it IS getting massively easier as I get more senior and the children get older.
I am in my final year of registrar training and did most of my training as LTFT (80% works well as you are seen as full time by others). You need to tell yourself it’s a Marathon not a sprint and be picky about your training opportunities. Become the rota coordinator as this gives you some control. Be mega organised. If you DH is a senior SpR then he WILL be part time in the future. More consultants end up with at least one weekday off once on calls / weekends kick in and they can do all their admin from home go in later etc as their own boss.
If you are in London now - be prepared to move after your husband finishes his rotation. You can get an inter Deanery transfer. Join the PGMUK Facebook group, join WIST as the RCSENG, get a mentor. If you are struggling think about coaching from the professional support unit in your Deanery.

I have been there as the struggling trainee as it was tough but I am so glad I rode the storm. You are currently having a childcare crisis but It will get easier - so much easier to find affordable help for school age children.
In the meantime your DH does need to share the burden . PM me if you want a chat

Honestly I would stick it out. The older they get the less they want you. I had the option to pick my kids up from school rather than kids club the other day so I asked would they like me too and it was a resounding no. They wanted to play with friends after school not come home.

I also quit my job (not a career like yours) when I had my third and after 4 months was desperate to go back. The sitting around at baby groups and monotonous routine was too much for me. I also didn't want my life achievements to be wrapped up in my children. They are there own people with their own achievements. I am proud of them honestly but I also wanted to be proud of myself. I'm not saying its been easy and in the middle of covid I cried at work more times than I like to remember but it's so worth it to me.

Look into life in 5 years time. What does it look like when your children are at school 5 days a week? Would you feel more guilt for not being able to afford extra curricular activities or holidays?

Think carefully. I gave up medicine (not surgery) and for many, many years I struggled with a loss of self, and didn't really want to mix with doctors and ex med school friends. I felt that I'd let the side down.

It's been years now and I'm more comfortable with my choices. The kids are adult and I've found a niche that uses my knowledge now in a flexible, non-medical field. However, if I had my time again, I think I'd stick with medicine - easier said than done I know!!

Also Tea &Empathy is another FB group worth joining for advice and support, aimed at medics.

Why are people say it would be impossible to restart in a number of years if you quit now.? Surely if you have your medical degree you could start again at a later date.? I thought the nhs was always screaming for staff

Genuine question. Why couldn't she start again in day 5 - 10 years.?

OP, you really do have a lot of options here. I know they all feel impossible, and you have dismissed them all, but you really do need to think more seriously about:
-Your DH going part time for a while. This is not impossible, and I find it terrible trust you both refuse to even consider this option. The sexism here is ridiculous.
-Get another nanny. They are out there, and many two career households cope. It can be done.

I think you will massively regret it and resent your apparently unsupportive DH in a few years once your kids are a bit grown and at school all day and you've thrown your whole career away.

I think I would also leave work. If you don't need the money as such, you will probably be happier. If my husband was a doctor, I'd have a little part time job in a shop or something, and pick my child up from school every day! It comes down to how important your goal if being a surgeon is and whether you think you would regret it.

I just like to add, I find it concerning your husband is not supporting you in fulfilling your career. If it's solely on you to sort out childcare and to just be a SAHM then you are stuck in a corner.

I know some women will roll their eyes "it never happen to me!" But being financially independent is freeing. I would worry about giving up a career to become a SAHM with no qualifications. Surely will lead to resentment in years to come?

Also those suggesting switch to GP, I wouldn’t unless you’d really want to. GP training as you know is 3 years full time but can easily be longer if working part time including the hospital jobs for at least 18 months of that f/t. GP itself can be equally rewarding and frustrating. The hours are long, the demands endless and at times the job is thankless. Having said that, it’s the same as most of medicine I guess. And there are more options to have a portfolio career.

I’m sure you already know this. but you’ll get lots of replies saying quit and return in a few years. This will be nigh on impossible so if you do quit make sure it’s 100% what you want.

You will regret it. As you said, you have worked so hard. Being financially dependant will reduce your choices in life even further down the line, and you will swap misery now, for greater misery later. Kids grow up faster than you think.

I gave up work to do the best thing for the children, and I ended up feeling trapped and miserable. I went back to full time work, at first it was hard, but the key to me really being happy about my decision was when we finally got amazing childcare. If you get a great nanny, who can read with the kids etc. you will not feel so about going to work because you will know they are being well looked after. Our after school nanny cooks the kids better meals than I would cook them and has more patience helping with their homework! (I did feel guilty when our childcare was not working out and kids were not happy) Don't skimp on the childcare, it is only for a few years, and it is a cost to wear to improve your career prospects, and keep up your pension contributions, so I will pay off in the long run. If you get a nanny and they are good, treat them well.

I don't really know about medicine and how difficult it is to change specialities, but my son had juvenile arthritis, and the rheumies seem to work office hours and always appear quite relaxed - looked like quite a good job!

Hang in there, and try and negotiate with your husband to share the load, my OH is 5 years older than me, and I fell into the trap my career was less important because he earned more (of course, he was 5 years older, 5 years more work experience and there is still a gender pay gap!) Don't sell yourself short.

OP - please post about this on PMG UK (on Facebook), you’ll get far more tailored advice. I think you need a nanny and some support from surgeons who have done it FT.

You’ve worked so so hard - please don’t give up. Can you change specialty as I imagine surgery is one of the most challenging disciplines of medicine?

You said that your DH is allowed to go part-time, but also can’t? If he’s allowed then he can. Get some full time help with the children. Also, why is it not possible to move away from the city?

I should of added I've quoted my job as a engineer and gone part time in a school 10 hours a week so I can be there for our kids 4/6 years old, I don't regret it at all.

What a difficult predicament to be in! I really feel for you. I’m a GP but was fortunate to complete my training full time before I went on to have children. I’ve always been ambitious but as soon as the firstborn came along, I knew I’d put them first. I’ve stayed working 2.5 days per week, but these are long days (8am-7pm) as a GP partner and we’ve managed with a non medic husband who worked 4 days a week initially and local grandparents supporting, as well as nursery and then wrap around care at school. I now feel I get plenty of time with my children and they feel well supported, but it’s hardest before they both start school. Sometimes I wish I could work even fewer hours but we need the money and I’d get bored when they’re at school .

I have medic friends who are married to medics in hospital specialties - some manage with live in au pairs/nannies, one of the Consultant husbands negotiated working from home one day a week which helped the childcare situation...

I don’t know any surgeons though.. it’s not the most family friendly specialty. It’s a very personal decision given everything we put in to get into medicine and our chosen speciality. In your position, personally I would look to seeking advice from fellow female surgeons and see if you can access some mentoring on careers. I’d see if your husband could negotiate altered hours to help at home but personally I’d do all I could to be around for the children the next 5-10 years...But otherwise you need to look at better paid support at home eg nanny/cleaner/tutor.

Can you continue part time but in another specialism? GP rather than surgical say?
I think it is always good to retain your career if you can- you have no idea what the future holds and it is best to have the potential to be economically independent.
Having said that, my husband died when my kids were young and I had to give my job up to look after them. They're older now and we talk often about me going back to work- how we could have a car and holidays and so on, if I did, but we all prefer me being at home and being there for/ with them-- whilst being a bit broke....
I wish there was more of a half way house but if I work part time, I just lose credits/ allowances. I volunteer in school and a charity shop to make a contribution and get some 'job' satisfaction. I know I will never, on my death bed, say I wish I had worked more and spent less time with my kids- but a balance that is financially worthwhile would be good!!

You cannot get the time back with your kids, they don't care about money or how successful you are all they just want you

I would quit and see if I could start over once they were teenagers.

Am I the only person here who thinks it's crazy to chuck away a career with lifelong financial independence for a man that might not be around in ten years' time?

It's not doing it for the children, it's doing it so he doesn't have to trouble himself with them.

Stick it out. That way, you wont be dependent upon a good lawyer getting a fair maintenance arrangement if it goes tits up.

I have a big job, and was exhausted, planning to jack it in and be home with my kids when it turns out that my marriage was over.

If I'd quit, it would have been fairly devastating, as starting again would be impossible as a single parent, and financially it would have been so hard.

I have surgeons in the family, and finally can't see it working without a full time nanny and an acceptance all round of a different type of parenting. Have you looked at other specialties? Or would your DH? Shouldn't always have to be the woman. Alternatively there are other jobs in management or in pharmaceuticals for example where your medical training will be extremely useful, but without requiring the same type of hours and on call.

Last wanted to agree with others that good childcare is key to anyone working longer hours. A full time nanny is a better use of money than a private school would ever be, in my experience - the early years are so important and the right person gives the children more stability, helps you with things like cooking dinner and sorting all the kids washing, and will also be able to do things like reading

I left my career to care for a parent and then to have children.

I love that I'm not missing out on precious time with my children. We are a very happy and relaxed family with very little stress.

More money and the prestige of a career could never compare to the joy I get from getting to raise them myself.